Honestly who came here without
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alex.barylski
- DevNet Evangelist
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- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: Winnipeg
IMHO...languages alone are not a good metric/indicator/quantifier whatever of programming expertise...neophyte wrote:Feyd - What other languages did you know/work with before you started with PHP?
There is much more to programming than learning a language syntax,constructs/caveats and nuance's...
For example...you can say you know PHP...but if your not familiar with OOP or time saving frameworks, MVC, etc what good are you?
You can say you know C/C++ but if you don't understand the Windows SDK and MFC or wxWindows (cross platform if you wish)...what good are you?
You can say you know Javascript, but if you don't understand DOM...what good are you???
My point is....all these languages...they follow C style syntax...they all use the ubiquitous semi-colon...each support OOP or some prototype thereof...
But a understanding of a language is meaningless without understanding the system/framework in which the language is used to manipulate or program...
By virtue of the fact I have 10 years experience in C++ I could say, I understand almost every language on the planet...simply because most languages are derivatives of C++
Thats a nice thing about knowing C++...it kinda works that way, but not the other way around...
Thats why C++ programmers are such ego maniacs...
Anyways, my point...again I've become confounded with my desultory approach in attempt to articulate my opinions in this mellifluent passing of time...
Holy <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span>...I've been reading to much <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> lately I think
Maybe it's cause I'm so damn tired...I'm starting to loose it...??
Your only crazy when you start answering the voices in your head right???
*** Runs to the bathroom *
Jcart | lets not try and bypass swearing filters shant we?
- Chris Corbyn
- Breakbeat Nuttzer
- Posts: 13098
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yeah... sticks out like a sore thumb to meonion2k wrote:I can believe that.feyd wrote:although you will likely think I'm lying, I joined knowing little to nothing about php other than it was a server-side scripting language.
Ooops... did I let that slip in public?
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Charles256
- DevNet Resident
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- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:06 pm
Nor do I. Just because they're popular methodologies at the moment doesn't make them right for you. If you go back 5 years everyone was on about Extreme Programming, and 5 years prior to that it was something about waterfalls .. next year it'll probably be all about pair programming or whatever. The fact is these methodologies are designed to make it more likely you'll write good code: but they do not guarantee it. Likewise, not using them does not necessarily mean your code will be bad.Charles256 wrote:don't do OOP and don't use MVC...
I personally fell that there is a mix or balance of OOP, every application is different. I'll find myself writing a shopping cart object just so I can serialize it, but keeping my PHP code embedded into the template (rather then writing a template handling class)
I don't think it takes a good programmer to find a balance , or a good programmer just to know how to write a class, but it takes a good programmer to find the right balance for each individual project to meet the goals and satisfy the client..
I don't think it takes a good programmer to find a balance , or a good programmer just to know how to write a class, but it takes a good programmer to find the right balance for each individual project to meet the goals and satisfy the client..
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alex.barylski
- DevNet Evangelist
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- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: Winnipeg
Thats not quite the point I was trying to make...although it did come out that wayCharles256 wrote:well according to a previous definition I am useless as a PHP programmer...don't do OOP and don't use MVC...guess I should go hang myself now...here I was thinking I am damn getting proficient with PHP..hell even my clients thought I was......
My apologies for any bad feelings
The point I was trying to make...is there is ALOT more to learning the syntax of a language...
Mostly with CPP I find people say they "know" the language...when in reality...they don't understand templates, OOD, RTTI, anything past a trivial #include when dealing with the preprocessor or complex declarations like:
Code: Select all
int *(*(*fp1) (int) ) [10];And if you don't know MFC...and your trying to build a Windows application...you better be damn good with SDK, have no problem dealing with tons of code, much of which will be manipulating your interface...and really understand how each API function works, cuz there are alot of caveats...
Sure you can know the basics of CPP...understand the language constructs and write simple "hello world" CLI programs using the CRT...but that doesn't mean you "know" the language...or know it enough to be an effective developer...
As for PHP....it's a slightly different tool for a slightly different job, so perhaps my statements above didn't really make sense...
PHP is dummy proof (Like VB)...you can begin writing code (with a knowledge of C) within minutes and almost always get a result...
I was writing scripts the first day I started...albeit not a very good one...but it was a glossary script and it did work...
While it's true you can write good PHP code and bad PHP code...either usually works...and thats really what matters most...
Again...I did not mean to belittle you or anyone else in anyway...that wasn't my intent...
Just trying to prevent noise in the forum...but making clear what it means to know a language...
Ultimately I side with programmer efficacy...regardless of how you get there...
Cheers
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alex.barylski
- DevNet Evangelist
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- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
- Location: Winnipeg
I visit 1000's of sites/month...many of them with forums...187skillz wrote:wow interesting, considering that i joined in 2003, I drifted away from the internet and now back..I'll hang around, seems this is the best forum for php/mysql...I hope I'm right.
For PHP related stuff...this is indeed the best place I have found thus far...
When what your after is a quick repsonse anyways...