Would you pay for...

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Whats your answer?

I understand quality costs money and would pay the small annual fee
3
38%
Nope...I'd develop my own solutions and re-invent the wheel
4
50%
I would use any accessable code, regardless of license, freely how I pleased and hope I didn't get caught by removing copyright, etc...
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

alex.barylski
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Would you pay for...

Post by alex.barylski »

A well designed library of PHP code which was well documented, well written, lots of articles, etc...

So long as it was released under a some what GPL type license?

Open source anyways...

Free as in speech, not as in beer???

I don't like BSD style licenses...atleast for my own projects...and I find it funny when others release code under that license...letting me basically do as I please :)

Hardly do I use OS code though....mostly because it's poor in docs, support, etc...

But...I ask you...

If there were plenty of solid classes, etc which garunteed to speed your development, would you pay a small nominal fee, of say...

$90USD/year developers license when used in commercial applications ONLY...

Non-commercial required a non-obtrusive link and logo tag...and mention on every page/doc, etc...

Either direction wouldn't allow redistro or forking...especially forking...I think that idea is so stupid...look how many similar apps there in PHP :?

Any code changes MUST be submited to the community (Original vendor) for consideration of application to codebase...

Distrobution would only be allowed if not submitted alone...if it's shipped with some packaged application...and no code changes had been made...thats fine...

Otherwise...you could not distribute the lib with your application, without written consent...if you ditribute the code in an app...the original code MUST remain intact...

If you use the code in a application which resides on a single server...and will never likely be distributed...then changes to codebase are ok...cuz you can't really stop that anyways...besides that too restrictive :)

Anyone know of a license which meets these requirements??? :)

So I ask again...

Would you pay as a professional developer to use rock solid, well documented, well supported code librarys or would you just write your own, use it anyways, etc???

Cheers :)
Roja
Tutorials Group
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Re: Would you pay for...

Post by Roja »

The problem with your question is that it presumes a lack of competition.

The reality is that there are already *hundreds* of well-designed libraries of PHP code that are well documented, well written, have tons of articles on them, are under an opensource license, AND are free.

Witness Smarty, phpmailer, adodb, Prado.. the list is enourmous.

With all that competition, fitting so many needs, what extra value are you bringing to the table that makes it worth paying for?

But, to answer your question directly - no. I wouldn't pay. I already have an overabundance of fantastic quality code for free, and under solid opensource licenses.
Hockey wrote:I find it funny when others release code under that license...letting me basically do as I please. Hardly do I use OS code though....mostly because it's poor in docs, support, etc...
On the contrary - you use Opensource and Freedom Software every day. To get to this forum, you entered it into a browser (possibly firefox, an FOSS browser). Then you typed in the domain name. The domain name was resolved using a dns stack - which until windows XP was based on BSD's networking stack (or you might be using a FOSS OS like Linux, or BSD). The request was sent to another DNS server - which in ~80% of the cases is running BIND, another FOSS application. Regardless, those DNS servers asked the root servers, 100% of which are all running on FOSS implementations (a few don't run BIND, but are using another FOSS alternative).

Then your request was sent over http. The http protocol design itself was unencumbered. Then the result comes back from an Apache server - also FOSS. The Apache server gets help from PHP, also FOSS, and a MYSQL backend - also FOSS.

The exact data and format of the response is from PHPBB, also FOSS, which in turn gives you my sarcastic reply, pointing out that just posting the phrase "I hardly use OS code" took over a dozen OS apps and platforms - and you do that dozens of times a day.

It should make you smile that people sharing their code empower all of that. Thats why we do so. To help make things better, universally.

Thats why your question doesn't work very well - it assumes that ISNT happening, and that you are filling a need unfilfilled. Its just the opposite - you have to prove YOUR value in an overwhelming competitive market.

Finally, your choice of answers is flat out biased. Comments like "I reinvent the wheel" attached to "No" is an attempt to ensure that no reasonable person will choose it.

You've given three choices - agree with you, reinvent the wheel, or imply that you would break the law.

Considering that you can easily disagree with your position, not break the law, AND not reinvent the wheel, your choices weren't realistic.

Next time, try using unbiased, simple "Yes, No, other" answers. You'll find a much more reasonable and accurate set of responses.
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onion2k
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Post by onion2k »

Your poll is missing an option. I'll use open source code if it's under a licence that lets me, otherwise I write my own. And, for reasons Roja rightly points out, I have no problem finding open source code.

As for the poor documentation of open source projects .. that implies that closed source things have better docs. Not true in my opinion .. especially when it comes to software components.
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Maugrim_The_Reaper
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Post by Maugrim_The_Reaper »

On the docs issue - closed source can be just as bad. Most of the documentation problems usually wind up in large scale applications where providing documentation is a major task all by itself - and for which OS developers do not have a vast reservoir of funds to pay for (unless donated time freely). Happens in smaller stuff too - but they should at least be well commented. Well we can always hope...
alex.barylski
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Location: Winnipeg

Re: Would you pay for...

Post by alex.barylski »

Roja wrote:The problem with your question is that it presumes a lack of competition.

The reality is that there are already *hundreds* of well-designed libraries of PHP code that are well documented, well written, have tons of articles on them, are under an opensource license, AND are free.

Witness Smarty, phpmailer, adodb, Prado.. the list is enourmous.

With all that competition, fitting so many needs, what extra value are you bringing to the table that makes it worth paying for?

But, to answer your question directly - no. I wouldn't pay. I already have an overabundance of fantastic quality code for free, and under solid opensource licenses.
Hockey wrote:I find it funny when others release code under that license...letting me basically do as I please. Hardly do I use OS code though....mostly because it's poor in docs, support, etc...
On the contrary - you use Opensource and Freedom Software every day. To get to this forum, you entered it into a browser (possibly firefox, an FOSS browser). Then you typed in the domain name. The domain name was resolved using a dns stack - which until windows XP was based on BSD's networking stack (or you might be using a FOSS OS like Linux, or BSD). The request was sent to another DNS server - which in ~80% of the cases is running BIND, another FOSS application. Regardless, those DNS servers asked the root servers, 100% of which are all running on FOSS implementations (a few don't run BIND, but are using another FOSS alternative).

Then your request was sent over http. The http protocol design itself was unencumbered. Then the result comes back from an Apache server - also FOSS. The Apache server gets help from PHP, also FOSS, and a MYSQL backend - also FOSS.

The exact data and format of the response is from PHPBB, also FOSS, which in turn gives you my sarcastic reply, pointing out that just posting the phrase "I hardly use OS code" took over a dozen OS apps and platforms - and you do that dozens of times a day.

It should make you smile that people sharing their code empower all of that. Thats why we do so. To help make things better, universally.

Thats why your question doesn't work very well - it assumes that ISNT happening, and that you are filling a need unfilfilled. Its just the opposite - you have to prove YOUR value in an overwhelming competitive market.

Finally, your choice of answers is flat out biased. Comments like "I reinvent the wheel" attached to "No" is an attempt to ensure that no reasonable person will choose it.

You've given three choices - agree with you, reinvent the wheel, or imply that you would break the law.

Considering that you can easily disagree with your position, not break the law, AND not reinvent the wheel, your choices weren't realistic.

Next time, try using unbiased, simple "Yes, No, other" answers. You'll find a much more reasonable and accurate set of responses.
Good argument...on the list of options anyways...I can't disagree there...

Your right...I didn't even realize that until you noted that...

As for everything else...

I dunno...IMHO all those projects could use slightly better documentation, articles, etc...and each of them could be improved on...

I'm a firm supporter of the mantra "There's always a better way" :)
Roja
Tutorials Group
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:30 pm

Re: Would you pay for...

Post by Roja »

Hockey wrote:I dunno...IMHO all those projects could use slightly better documentation, articles, etc...and each of them could be improved on...
Virtually *anything* can be better. The key question is, is what exists good enough.

In the case of adodb, and Smarty especially, I can't see how someone could reasonably say they could use more articles or substantially better documentation. Both are incredibly well documented, and have had hundreds of articles written about them. If they aren't good enough, I don't know of many solutions (closed OR open) that would meet that incredibly high definition of good enough.
alex.barylski
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Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Would you pay for...

Post by alex.barylski »

Roja wrote:
Hockey wrote:I dunno...IMHO all those projects could use slightly better documentation, articles, etc...and each of them could be improved on...
Virtually *anything* can be better. The key question is, is what exists good enough.

In the case of adodb, and Smarty especially, I can't see how someone could reasonably say they could use more articles or substantially better documentation. Both are incredibly well documented, and have had hundreds of articles written about them. If they aren't good enough, I don't know of many solutions (closed OR open) that would meet that incredibly high definition of good enough.
Funny you mention both those libraries, cuz their exactly the two which I have spent the most time pondering about improvments...

I have concluded that both could be improved upon to offer substantial time savings or improved design...

I like both....heck I use both...dislike adoDB API...it's a personal thing...nothing more...but still...

I just need to justify spending the required time rewritting both to take advantage of my ideas...

AdoDB could probably just be extended...infact my DB idea is really just a RAD tool which could totally use a generic DB API like AdoDB...as a base class

Smarty on the other hand...total rewrite :)

Cheers :)
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