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Calendar (Popup versus DHTML)

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:57 pm
by alex.barylski
A while back I wrote a date picker control...purely in cross browser javascript :)

It supports most features of similiar high quality commercial date pickers, but it's implemented solely as a popup window...

I choose popup, only because I find them most user friendly...

A DIV (at the time) had issues with displaying over top Flash, comboboxes, etc...

Not sure if the Flash thing has been since rectified, but I'm pretty sure layers can be displayed over top comboboxes now??? But whatever, thats not my question...

Anyways I have also found that many DIV type popups have problems with timers and closing properly or atleast promptly...

They both have their ups and downs, but I personally like popup for date pickers...

But now I ask the general community...

What would you prefer?

Cheers :)

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:07 pm
by Roja
For me, its pretty simple: I don't see popups. I have Firefox aggressively block virtually every popup.

Accessibility guidelines deeply suggest against them, I don't choose to open them, so I don't want to see them.

I don't actually like DHTML popups either, but your poll didn't give me another choice.

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:07 pm
by alex.barylski
Roja wrote:For me, its pretty simple: I don't see popups. I have Firefox aggressively block virtually every popup.

Accessibility guidelines deeply suggest against them, I don't choose to open them, so I don't want to see them.

I don't actually like DHTML popups either, but your poll didn't give me another choice.
Yes I know popups are annoying and Google toolbar does a decent job - although not as good as firefox...I still prefer popup date pickers

But I'm curious, what other approach could you use for date selection?

Cheers :)

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:59 pm
by Roja
Hockey wrote:But I'm curious, what other approach could you use for date selection?
Depends on what you mean by date selection. Picking a date from a calendar doesn't require a popup - it can be links.

I suspect your focus is on the second step - what you have people do *after* they choose a date. In which case, my answer would be, have them do that second step first, or, use a seperate page for the second step.

So, lets get more specific - what are they doing once they pick the date?

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:42 pm
by alex.barylski
Roja wrote:
Hockey wrote:But I'm curious, what other approach could you use for date selection?
Depends on what you mean by date selection. Picking a date from a calendar doesn't require a popup - it can be links.

I suspect your focus is on the second step - what you have people do *after* they choose a date. In which case, my answer would be, have them do that second step first, or, use a seperate page for the second step.

So, lets get more specific - what are they doing once they pick the date?
I think were misunderstanding each other... :P

My intentions for this topic were to discuss pros/cons or possible alternatives to popup window date pickers...

I just visited 3 high profile travel booking type web sites and each one appears to have switched over to DHTML view...

Which sux, cuz I personally prefer popup...mostly because the way I implemented mine...it kinda relies on having it's own window using refresh() :)

But I suppose I can rewrite it :)

Cheers :)

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:52 pm
by feyd
you can Ajax or DOM the "refresh" to a DHTML'd one.. I prefer inlining where possible, however, they are the first to switch to smaller launch controls when screen space becomes an issue (quite quickly) .. if one goes, they all go, unless there are special circumstances. This is done for consistency, mostly.

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:17 pm
by Roja
Hockey wrote:I think were misunderstanding each other... :P

My intentions for this topic were to discuss pros/cons or possible alternatives to popup window date pickers...
Well, I'm thinking more outside the box.

Here's an example. Go to Keith Deven's weblog ( http://keithdevens.com/weblog ), and notice the calendar. You can pick a date, and by doing so, you go to that date for his weblog.

That to me, is a nearly ideal interface. Its simple, straightforward, decent layout, doesn't require popups or DHTML.

Which is why I asked what you wanted it to do *after* they choose the date.
Hockey wrote:I just visited 3 high profile travel booking type web sites and each one appears to have switched over to DHTML view...
See, thats a good example. For a travel site, have them choose the date, as on Keiths site, and the next page can be the list of flights, and so forth. No DHTML, no popups.

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:19 pm
by alex.barylski
Roja wrote:
Hockey wrote:I think were misunderstanding each other... :P

My intentions for this topic were to discuss pros/cons or possible alternatives to popup window date pickers...
Well, I'm thinking more outside the box.

Here's an example. Go to Keith Deven's weblog ( http://keithdevens.com/weblog ), and notice the calendar. You can pick a date, and by doing so, you go to that date for his weblog.

That to me, is a nearly ideal interface. Its simple, straightforward, decent layout, doesn't require popups or DHTML.

Which is why I asked what you wanted it to do *after* they choose the date.
Hockey wrote:I just visited 3 high profile travel booking type web sites and each one appears to have switched over to DHTML view...
See, thats a good example. For a travel site, have them choose the date, as on Keiths site, and the next page can be the list of flights, and so forth. No DHTML, no popups.
The travels sites all use DHTML date pickers... :?

It has to be DHTML because a date picker is usually used inside a form...

Date of departure, etc...

Therefore the date picker must be either DHTML or popup...otherwise you would have to persist form data between date selection...

Unless you use fancy adhoc hacks, but IMHO date pickers are best implemented as popup or DHTML layers...

I personally prefered popup, but I'm starting to reconsider... :)

Cheers :)

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:53 am
by Roja
Hockey wrote: The travels sites all use DHTML date pickers... :?

It has to be DHTML because a date picker is usually used inside a form...

Date of departure
You haven't answered the question - what are you having users do, once they pick the date?

I've given multiple examples of how you can avoid either DHTML or popups. If you don't explain what the user is doing once they've picked the date, its impossible to discuss how to implement things.

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:58 pm
by alex.barylski
Roja wrote:
Hockey wrote: The travels sites all use DHTML date pickers... :?

It has to be DHTML because a date picker is usually used inside a form...

Date of departure
You haven't answered the question - what are you having users do, once they pick the date?

I've given multiple examples of how you can avoid either DHTML or popups. If you don't explain what the user is doing once they've picked the date, its impossible to discuss how to implement things.
Fill out form:
1) Departure city & arrival
2) Credit card info, etc...
3) enter date of departure and other dates maybe...date of birth who knows...

Submit the FORM to a processing script of some sorts...

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:29 pm
by timvw
I don't like anything that requires dhtml/javascript to function.. Sometimes i'm in a shell and simply don't have such a browser.. It's their problem they don't want me as a potential customer.

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:50 pm
by alex.barylski
timvw wrote:I don't like anything that requires dhtml/javascript to function.. Sometimes i'm in a shell and simply don't have such a browser.. It's their problem they don't want me as a potential customer.
Date pickers don't force anything on you...

It's simply there to assist you in entering the right date in the right format....

When you consider so many people use so many different formats

Month - Day - Year
Mon.DD.YY
Day, Month - Year

And so on...

Entering the right date might lead to confusion...

Date pickers prevent having to figure out potentially confusing ALERT error messages, like:

Your Date format is invalid: Please enter a date in the following format: Mon.Day.Year

With year as the full four digit representation (ie: 2006)

How about possible server side errors when someone enters a date for Oct.36 - 2005...by accident of course...

Anyways, I can't remember the point I was trying to make, so I leave you with the above :)

Cheers :)

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:12 pm
by timvw
(imho) Nothing better than an input field and a yyyy-mm-dd next to it to indicate the format it expects. Works much faster than moving my hand from the keyboard to the mouse and finding the date i need.. Ah well, more and more i get the feeling that the webinterface simply isn't meant for large amounts of data input.