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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:40 pm
by d3ad1ysp0rk
hawleyjr wrote:Roja, out of curiosity, where did you get this stat?
http://slashdot.org/faq/tech.shtml

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:38 am
by m3mn0n
I was not attacking your opinion about the topic question, Bill. I was commenting on you belittling someone elses opinion about the topic question. There is a significant difference between those two things.

So in other words, I was not replying to this:
Bill H wrote:Well, if it makes the guy feel good to say "Hey, I've got 49 servers running my site" and he can afford it, what's wrong with that? Why should he turn any of them off?
I was replying to this:
Bill H wrote:
Because he could use the money for much better things,
On the other hand, it's his money, and that's your definition of better.

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:43 am
by Roja
Bill H wrote:For some years I used to lose clients by being very expert (and arrogant) and telling them what they ought to do and how they ought to run their business.
On the contrary, I specifically said:
Roja wrote:If I had a client who gave me the same list of infrastructure to power the same list of needs, I would benchmark, profile, and more. If those numbers added up to my initial impression, I would absolutely advise him to shut many of them off.
Notice - document first, then present the conclusion. The thread was specifically asking what our thoughts were on the setup and how we would handle it. Its not being arrogant to answer the question - its being on-topic.
hawleyjr wrote:Roja, out of curiosity, where did you get this stat?
I got the Alexa stats from their site ranking page, and the slashdot infrastructure info from http://slashdot.org/faq/tech.shtml .

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:35 am
by Grim...
Why has no-one considered the fact that he might be lying about the amount of servers he needs?

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:28 am
by Roja
Grim... wrote:Why has no-one considered the fact that he might be lying about the amount of servers he needs?
Lying, exaggerating, over-stating, and misunderstanding are all potentials that are laid bare by the simple act of measurement.

Benchmark before optimizing in any sense. :)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:34 am
by Bill H
Okay. I'm going to make one last try. Can no one see that there is a difference between expressing an onpinin about how one would do things oneself, or expressing the needed parameters. and saying what someone else should do?

Who are we to be telling somebody else what to do? That is what my point is.

If somebody was expressing an opinion that the guy was a total and absolute idiot for running them I would not flinch. I have no bone to pick with "Iwoud evaluate and present evidence to him." I was saying that the flat statement "he should shut 46 of them down" was not appropriate to civilized discourse.

It is not the place of one person to tell another person what "he should do." There are way too many people in this world whose mission is telling other people how they should live and what they should do. It causes ill feeling and even war. Telling me what you believe is one thing, telling me what to do is a different thing.

My remarks actually were meant light-heartedly, and they were taken as if I had thrown down some kind of gauntlet, and this whole thing got blown into some kind of I-don't-know-what. Lighten up, for Heaven's sake.

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:43 am
by Grim...
I hear what you are saying, Bill.

I just read everybodies posts as if they were prefixed with 'I think' :)

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:46 am
by Jenk
skipped loads (mainly from when I noticed some bickering was kicking off) but I am firmly in the "Shenanningans" group.

Perhaps the guy who owns the site has got mixed up somewhere and has read that his SP has 49 servers in total and not just dedicated to his site?

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:53 am
by hawleyjr
So, this guy only has 2 name servers for all of these servers?

http://www.whois.sc/marapets.com

Are you sure, he isn't getting servers and domain names mixed up?

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:01 am
by Jenk
He may only have two nameservers, but that makes no difference.. ISP's normally only have 2 name servers for their entire customer base.

However, he does have 10 IP addresses registered for the domain name..
DNS server handling your query: ns.kloth.net
DNS server's address: 85.10.194.170#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 207.226.18.58
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.72.2
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.72.3
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.72.4
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.72.5
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.79.17
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.79.22
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.79.27
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 205.177.79.87
Name: http://www.marapets.com
Address: 207.226.18.42

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:16 am
by Roja
Bill H wrote:Can no one see that there is a difference between expressing an onpinin about how one would do things oneself, or expressing the needed parameters. and saying what someone else should do?
We see the difference.

Can you not see that there is a difference from bluntly telling people what they should do, and giving our considered opinion about what they should do in a thread that asked that specific question?

We didn't just go look for a site, and then start criticizing it, and offering our opinions when we weren't asked. We were asked, and we answered.

Plus, implicit in your comment is the recurring theme that what we are suggesting is wrong, unusual, or even rude. None of those are accurate. We've given plenty of justification, evidence, and arguments supporting our contentions. Its right, based on our understanding of the issues. Its quite common to suggest it, and its not rude to answer the question asked.
Bill H wrote:Who are we to be telling somebody else what to do? That is what my point is.
Flat out, we are not telling him what to do. We are answering the original poster, who asked what WE think. We answered.
Bill H wrote:I was saying that the flat statement "he should shut 46 of them down" was not appropriate to civilized discourse.
On the contrary, its a very reasonable position, and it answers the original poster directly. There is a good rationale behind that suggestion, and it is in fact, what that person would suggest.
Bill H wrote:It is not the place of one person to tell another person what "he should do." There are way too many people in this world whose mission is telling other people how they should live and what they should do. It causes ill feeling and even war. Telling me what you believe is one thing, telling me what to do is a different thing.
Your problem isn't with the posters responding appropriately to the original question. Your issue is with the original question being asked.

No one on this thread has told the site owner what to do. We've said what we think is the appropriate solution, and only did that because the original poster asked.

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:19 am
by Grim...
Jesus, man, let it go.

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:49 am
by Bill H
My remarks actually were meant light-heartedly,
Did you not read that part?
Or do you need it more specifically?
I deeply apologize to anyone that I may have inadvertantly offended with my misplaced humor.
Now can you let it go?

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:51 am
by pilau
Grim... wrote:Jesus, man, let it go.
But he's right, man. We are not telling that person what to do, we're merely stating our opinions.

EDIT:

I did NOT see the post above me while posting this!

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
by Chris Corbyn
Yes... please drop it now.