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Re: How did you learn PHP?
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:16 pm
by sjeika
arborint wrote:I think we are getting down to different types of learners. Some people really benefit from reading a tutorial style book, others need to see code and experiment, and often prefer reference style books to tutorials. There is not one best way, so sjeika needs to have some insight into what kind of learner she/he is.
Yeah, I think I can benifit more from taking a class (more hands-on learning) than just reading a book, but trust me, I'm gonna (try) to get my hands on as much as I can, as long as it gives me some learning experience.
P.S. - I'm a he.
Sami wrote:Well I think this is as much of a discussion about pointing sjeika in the right direction, as it's a discussion/debate about what we feel is the best way...
Yes, pretty much. So far everyone has been very helpful and I thank all of you for that. Plus I thought it would be a good way to learn a little more about people here. Getting help and knowing people: killing two birds with one stone!
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:07 pm
by m3mn0n
Roja wrote:Sami wrote:Both aren't ideal IMO.
For you.

Its definitely a personal preference issue.
Well in the case of that statement that he made, I think it was a generalization and a common misconception about learning from books, like I have shown it to be in my previous post.
Roja wrote:I've never seen one that has any substantial trial-and-error.
You must not be looking hard enough!

heh, no seriously though, learning through trial and error is more about your learning style and how well you know how to learn, as opposed to what it is you are learning from.
So every tutorial out there doesn't explicitly state "keep trying and failing and learn from your mistakes" but it's a given that you do that in those tutorials. The very same thing is true with books. Like I always say, books are merely a more organized and well put together tutorial, that tends to cover a wide array of topics, and of course, sold in tangible form.
Roja wrote:Further, the examples require substantial typing in, and aren't usually interesting or compelling.
I guess that might hold true in regards to some books, but many have CDs that come with examples, and the ones that do not have CDs, tend to have a website where users can download the examples and gather errata. I've seen many Wrox, Peachpit press, and O'Reilly books that did not come with a CD and had every example code online. The two PHP wrox books I have and the one PHP book from Peachpit I have all have this nifty feature if you do not wish to re-type the examples.
Personally, I'd rather just re-type them, because that's more hands-on instead of copy and pasting it (like one would tend to do in an online tutorial). I did that when I first started so when it came time to using what I learned without the book around, I've had more practice writing the code myself.
Roja wrote:If you get bored, disinterested, or tired of typing in code, you won't get ANY fundamentals.
Same can be said about most anything, including learning via tutorials. If you aren't willing to put in the work to learn the material, then you shouldn't be expecting top notch results (because you most likely won't get them).
Roja wrote:Some people are geared for more hands-on learning, some people are geared for more book learning.
That's I guess where we fundamentally disagree. I've done a lot of book learning (I frequent the tech section of the local Library) and every time it's been very hands on. So for me, and some people I've talked to who agree with me, book learning and hands-on learning are one and the same thing.
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:43 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Pitching in my $.02...
I learned my very first snippets from the sample chapters of Kevin Yank's "Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL". Within the first four chapters of that book you learn structure, syntax, setting up PHP and MySQL, connecting to a database, selecting from a database, inserting into a database and deleting from a database. In fact, my first usable application was a simple modification of the code Kevin Yank has you build.
After that I began downloading scripts left and right. I eventually downloaded phpBB and found it to be one of the best learning applications (for me, can't speak for anyone else on this). It uses almost everything that a developer would use in an application and has a pretty design from a project standpoint. For me, that was what really fired up my engines.
Since then I have written several applications and continue to develop apps to learn from. I also read these forums daily and contribute whenever I can. I find that helping people is a good way to learn also.
And, last but not least, these forums. Feyd, the grand poobah of all things DevNetwork, is a PHP based application with fingers telling you how it runs itself. timvw appears to be the PHP manual in human form. And just about all of the regular posters here (sami, d11wtq, Roja, jshpro2, jam, etc [ sorry if I left anyone off this list ]) have some area in which they are extremely knowledgable. The DevNetwork community is an excellent tool to learn by.
Hope all this helps. Make sure you find your favorite learning style then learn in that style. You will be a PHP geek in no time flat (I know I was...).
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:59 pm
by feyd
that last bit sounds like an acceptance speech at some awards or something Everah.

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:05 pm
by Roja
feyd wrote:that last bit sounds like an acceptance speech at some awards or something Everah.

If so, he broke the first rule of award acceptance speeches: You must thank either your Mother, or God.
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:49 pm
by m3mn0n
Yeah, and not to mention all of the fans!

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:36 am
by RobertGonzalez
The end of my speech wrote:... And before I leave the stage I would like to thank God, my mom and all the wonderful fans that made this a possibility for me...
Sorry, should have remembered these ones also...
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:58 am
by s.dot
http://www.scriptschool.com/php [[really bad resource, don't learn here]]

google, and devnet
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:05 pm
by a94060
eperience, the simplist way. learn the basic terms,read simple guides people have written. After that,just google what you need.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:48 pm
by neophyte
Another devnetwork disciple steps forward...
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:44 pm
by AlecH
I learned from a PHP book called PHP 5 - Fast & Easy Web Development when I was 12. Alot of people are going to comment me on that I bet but yes. That is a very good book to, it goes through everything in detail and in understandable terms, so if you are looking to learn PHP I would suggest that book to you.

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:42 pm
by shiznatix
said it before and i will say it again:
i sold my soul to the devil to get to where i am today, guess i should have asked for more huh?
Re: How did you learn PHP?
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:56 pm
by alex.barylski
Roja wrote:sjeika wrote:Before I buy (any more) books or whatnot, I'm interested in seeing what all of you think is the best and successful way in learning PHP. Learn it from a book? Web site? Live classes? Share them! It's always good to let other people know what they have done to become a PHP programmer. Share the wealth!

I was bored at a conference, so I googled for a web game. I found Blacknova Traders (which is written in PHP). I played, and I got annoyed by the bugs. (I had no experience in PHP).
I saw that it was opensource, and that the code was available on sourceforge. I looked at the code, found a bug, and using the php manual, looked up the functions. Within an hour, I had a patch ready, which I submitted. Later that night, the dev team invited me to join.
Four years later, I'm happy to say I enjoy PHP programming immensely. I know quite a bit, but I still have plenty to learn.
I learned by working on something I enjoyed. To me, thats the best way to learn a programming language.
So you had experience in another language? Or right from knowing nothing at all you actually discovered a bug in the source code?
If it's the latter I'd say you definetly found your calling in life

Re: How did you learn PHP?
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:59 pm
by Roja
Hockey wrote:So you had experience in another language? Or right from knowing nothing at all you actually discovered a bug in the source code?
I had previously programmed in Pascal, Basic, and (briefly) C. But at the time I jumped in, I couldn't reliably program in any of them.

The simplicity of the programming style helped more than anything else.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:17 am
by duk
my experience is interesting..
because past 3 years i start to read my php first book, i have already knowledge of C and PASCAL, HTML, my idea was going into C++, but i decide to go more to webdesigning... so i was thinking that PHP is the first path...
but after i understand PHP, i start thinking in learn JAVA but the language was not so easy, and could be good, but i feel it that J2SE and J2E and that stuff was not the future and was not what companys in global are looking for, so i went back to PHP, and now how i do my websites... now i need to ask friends to design layouts for me... im now learning photoshop and try to create my own layouts, and im trying at the same time learning more about PHP and learn javascript..
the problem for me and for a lot of people, is when we dont know nothing, what to start with ???
in this days we have a lot of languages that people get lost arround a lot of information... we start with something that maybe we had to start first with other...