.NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

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jayshields
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.NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by jayshields »

http://www.promoteware.com/Module/Article/ArticleView.aspx?id=10

I've just been talking to a fellow developer who is starting in CF and claims it will be the next big thing, now, I don't know alot about ColdFusion, so I Google'd for ColdFusion vs PHP and found this, it seems to be a web development company offering .NET development.

I was looking at the table, and PHP is clearly made out to be the worst choice.

Comments?

Edit: I have just spotted the date, early 2004. Maybe it's down to the current PHP version out at that time?
darkbear
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Post by darkbear »

I have a friend - a CF developer.

He make a great things in CF - i like especially FlashPaper.
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Post by timvw »

I've had it with all the x VS y papers... Give me papers on x AND y :)
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by Roja »

jayshields wrote:I've just been talking to a fellow developer who is starting in CF and claims it will be the next big thing, now, I don't know alot about ColdFusion, so I Google'd for ColdFusion vs PHP and found this, it seems to be a web development company offering .NET development.
Ugh. I really hate links like this. Its biased, inaccurate, and out of date. So discuss it?

But since you asked..

1. Compiled code - Until PHP6, you do need a module installed to do compiling, however, there isn't a direct relation to performance (read #2).

2. "Scripted Language – results in poor website performance" - Which is why major portions of Yahoo and Flickr (both running PHP) have "poor website performance" ? PHP offers some of the most competitive performance available today. Name one CF site that comes close to those. Even if you ignore those facts, you can still install a compiler if you like, giving you the best of both worlds.

3. "Object Oriented - PHP:NO" - Outdated and incorrect. PHP5 (and 6) are fully OOP.

4. "Supported development languages" - The idea they are trying to sell is that you can have X number of developers because they offer X languages on one platform. Nevermind the fact that the developers cant work together on the same code, and no one can reuse code from each other - let alone the maintenance nightmare. PHP gets this one right, not wrong.

4. "Browser specific html" - Thats a *bad* thing, not a good thing. Thankfully, PHP can produce whatever output you want - yes, even browser-specific html if you want such a thing.

5. Open Source - Yes.

Redone with the reality checks above, suddenly its crystal clear that PHP is the superior choice in every category - even the ones they selectively picked. And of course, that leaves out categories like licensing costs, security issues from the OS you are forced to run, helping a predatory monopoly, and many, many more.

PHP for the win.
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Benjamin
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Post by Benjamin »

I agree with Roja on this one. I have never used .NET, but I did test out CF years ago. I'm somewhat surprised CF is still around.
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Post by Ree »

agtlewis wrote:I have never used .NET
You may want to try ;)
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by alex.barylski »

Roja wrote:
jayshields wrote:I've just been talking to a fellow developer who is starting in CF and claims it will be the next big thing, now, I don't know alot about ColdFusion, so I Google'd for ColdFusion vs PHP and found this, it seems to be a web development company offering .NET development.
Ugh. I really hate links like this. Its biased, inaccurate, and out of date. So discuss it?

But since you asked..

1. Compiled code - Until PHP6, you do need a module installed to do compiling, however, there isn't a direct relation to performance (read #2).

2. "Scripted Language – results in poor website performance" - Which is why major portions of Yahoo and Flickr (both running PHP) have "poor website performance" ? PHP offers some of the most competitive performance available today. Name one CF site that comes close to those. Even if you ignore those facts, you can still install a compiler if you like, giving you the best of both worlds.

3. "Object Oriented - PHP:NO" - Outdated and incorrect. PHP5 (and 6) are fully OOP.

4. "Supported development languages" - The idea they are trying to sell is that you can have X number of developers because they offer X languages on one platform. Nevermind the fact that the developers cant work together on the same code, and no one can reuse code from each other - let alone the maintenance nightmare. PHP gets this one right, not wrong.

4. "Browser specific html" - Thats a *bad* thing, not a good thing. Thankfully, PHP can produce whatever output you want - yes, even browser-specific html if you want such a thing.

5. Open Source - Yes.

Redone with the reality checks above, suddenly its crystal clear that PHP is the superior choice in every category - even the ones they selectively picked. And of course, that leaves out categories like licensing costs, security issues from the OS you are forced to run, helping a predatory monopoly, and many, many more.

PHP for the win.
I agree on every level, except PHP being fully OOP... :?

Still doesn't have support for MI??? or does it?

Sure you can use composition to emulate MI and I've been told you can use PHP interfaces as an alternative as well.

However, they are not created equal, like a switch and if are different, MI and composition are as well.

Performance wise, not sure if it makes sense to implement MI in a interpreted language like PHP, but still....it's a nessecary evil for OOP IMHO. :)
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by timvw »

Hockey wrote: I agree on every level, except PHP being fully OOP... :?

Still doesn't have support for MI??? or does it?
- What are the/your requirements for a language to be "full" OOP?

- And how many times has the lack of Multiple Inheritance ever stopped you to do OOP with PHP?
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Post by Burrito »

I've posted on this topic before so I'll keep this brief.

Roja hit every nail right on the head.

my upbringing in web development was in CF and there really is not comparison between the two (php vs cf). .NET on the other hand is something that has me intrigued and I've been doing my best over the past few weeks to try and learn some c#...if for nothing else to add some resume value.

If I can think of one thing that .NET may have an advantage over PHP it's this: I really like the ability to integrate windows applications and web applications into one mold. I know there are php 'extensions' in the works to allow for this, but from what I've seen, it's a long way off.


edit: btw WB tim...good to see you again 8)
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by Christopher »

jayshields wrote:I've just been talking to a fellow developer who is starting in CF and claims it will be the next big thing, now, I don't know alot about ColdFusion, so I Google'd for ColdFusion vs PHP and found this, it seems to be a web development company offering .NET development.

I was looking at the table, and PHP is clearly made out to be the worst choice.
Hold it. Let me get this straight. You have someone starting out in ColdFusion, which was the next big thing 5+ years ago and has long since dropped out of the charts of language usage. So he shows you an old marketing piece from a failed company trying to pitch .NET over ColdFusion. That marketing piece also adds Java because it is an obvious competitor to .NET, and then tacks on PHP with some incorrect and misleading information about it.

What was the question again?
Last edited by Christopher on Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Christopher
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by Christopher »

Hockey wrote:Still doesn't have support for MI??? or does it?
For those exquisite programmers who cannot program with out Multiple Inheritance, there is ... Python!

Alas, languages like C#, Java, PHP and Ruby do not support Multiple Inheritance to the dismay of ... Python programmers!
(#10850)
Roja
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by Roja »

arborint wrote: Hold it. Let me get this straight. You have someone starting out in ColdFusion, which was the next big thing 5+ years ago and has long since dropped out of the charts of language usage. So he shows you an old marketing piece from a failed company trying to pitch .NET over ColdFusion. That marketing piece also adds Java because it is an obvious competitor to .NET, and then tacks on PHP with some incorrect and misleading information about it.

What was the question again?
Arborint, credit where credit is due, you *totally* did a better job than I did.
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by alex.barylski »

timvw wrote:
Hockey wrote: I agree on every level, except PHP being fully OOP... :?

Still doesn't have support for MI??? or does it?
- What are the/your requirements for a language to be "full" OOP?

- And how many times has the lack of Multiple Inheritance ever stopped you to do OOP with PHP?
1) Good question. Not sure what I would define as "full" OOP...

A quick break down:
- Inheritance & MI
- Composition
- Access control (public, protected & private)
- Virtual functions & polymorphism
- RTTI and runtime object instantiation
- ABC's
- CTors() and DTors() which are inherited :P
- ADT & operator overloading
- Templates
- Nested class support
- Static methods
- Inline or interface/implementation methods - more of a parse issue than OOP :P
- Const methods
- Namespaces
- Method overloading/overriding
- Upcasting/Downcasting
- Exception handling

I'm sure I'm missing something, but thats a short list - at least what I've personally come to expect from an language thats touted as OOP...

Granted, some of what I listed above are better left in the domain of a compiler than the ideology of OOP, some of those features listed are important when working with OOP. For example consider the const methods...thats a nice feature :)

p.s- I know PHP supports some, if not many of the above, but it doesn't and probably won't support full OOP, until it becomes a natively compiled language (if ever).

p.s.s-I am not trying to advocate the use of MI nor am I saying it's "absolutely" required, but it does play a role in OOP IMHO.

2) Ok, so it doesn't happen very often :oops:. Obviously it's easy to work around and many would argue better fundamentally to do so, but I still argue that it is a feature requirement for OOP.

OOP is all about modeling real world objects or organisms. Most living creatures come from not one parent, but two. So IMHO it makes sense to offer MI as a fature of OOP for that very reason.

Sure you could have a father class and a mother class derived from it and a child class derived from mother class, or you could even use composition (Mother and father inside the child) but IMHO it's not as axiomatical as using MI.

Thats my argument towards using MI. It may cause problems, but if used properly by an experienced developer (which I consider myself) it's a cleaner approach to solving a problem (at face value).

Like using BNF over hand-written parsers...both can accomplish the same task...but one, at face value (BNF) makes immediate sense (once you know what BNF is).

Thats my story and i'm sticking to it :)

Cheers :)
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Post by alex.barylski »

Burrito wrote:I've posted on this topic before so I'll keep this brief.

Roja hit every nail right on the head.

my upbringing in web development was in CF and there really is not comparison between the two (php vs cf). .NET on the other hand is something that has me intrigued and I've been doing my best over the past few weeks to try and learn some c#...if for nothing else to add some resume value.

If I can think of one thing that .NET may have an advantage over PHP it's this: I really like the ability to integrate windows applications and web applications into one mold. I know there are php 'extensions' in the works to allow for this, but from what I've seen, it's a long way off.


edit: btw WB tim...good to see you again 8)
Booooo... :P

.NET is a scam...

Who needs grbage collection...real programmers free resources by hand :P

For real though, the only thing that currently intrigues me about .NET is it's IDE...
alex.barylski
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Re: .NET vs Java vs ColdFusion vs PHP article

Post by alex.barylski »

arborint wrote:
Hockey wrote:Still doesn't have support for MI??? or does it?
For those exquisite programmers who cannot program with out Multiple Inheritance, there is ... Python!

Alas, languages like C#, Java, PHP and Ruby do not support Multiple Inheritance to the dismay of ... Python programmers!
Are you suggesting I'm exquisite? 8)

Hows that saying go, aspersion is the sincerest form of flattery :P
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