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Damn Russians
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:03 pm
by alex.barylski
Although I have to say I am often left in awe of some articles/books I have read by Russians
Those guys seem to be addicted to mastering the lowest level of programming and therefore often are incredible programmers...
Really obsessed with reverse engineering as all the books on assembly I have or have read, by Russians usually touched on this topic, which is stupid complex...
Am I alone in thinking this?
Does anyone else notice stereotypes about certain parts of the world in the programming community?
For instance, I would personally say Europeans are far more
pro open source than North Americans...maybe thats just me though
I wonder if the Russians are working on a covert operating system which is ready to replace Windows???
BTW this was inspired by the following article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/17 ... ity_folds/
Cheers

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:11 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Seems kinda of mean to make a blanket, general assessment of an entire segment of a nationality, doesn't it?
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:12 pm
by Benjamin
There is no indication that the person who did this is Russian, unless I missed something. I know a few people that take down sites on a regular basis when someone rubs them the wrong way. It normally boils down to the person getting in the way of them making a profit.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:35 pm
by alex.barylski
Everah wrote:Seems kinda of mean to make a blanket, general assessment of an entire segment of a nationality, doesn't it?
Not really...seeing how my stereotype was no where near condescending but rather full of flattery...
I wouldn't mind being called a genius by someone other than myself
I think your being overly sensitive...
On second though...I take that last comment back...if you found what I said offensive...I apologize...but I need you to know...it was not intended as being rude...but rather just an observation I have made over the years...
I'm just honest dude...and sometimes it offends people...but thats who I am...
I can't not voice my opinion just because I might hurt someones feelings...I mean I can...but in this context...where you and I will likely never meet...your feelings I guess take a second seat...on the contrary...if there was a good chance you and I might meet in person...I would likel not say anything I suspected might hurt your feelings...as person to person contact means much more to me...
I have strong opinions or I should feelings about alot of things and I cannto express those ideas, opinions or thought in person to person for that reason...the aura of someones feelings being hurt has a much harsher impact on me than does offending someone over a wire...because of that...I often use the Net to
"let it all out" if you will
Cheers - honestly didn't mean to offend anyone

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:39 pm
by alex.barylski
agtlewis wrote:There is no indication that the person who did this is Russian, unless I missed something. I know a few people that take down sites on a regular basis when someone rubs them the wrong way. It normally boils down to the person getting in the way of them making a profit.
This campaign of intimidation was followed by a sophisticated denial of service attack against Blue Security's website. According to Blue Security, a renegade Russian language speaking spammer known as PharmaMaster succeeded in bribing a top-tier ISP's staff member into black holing Blue Security's former IP address (194.90.8.20) at internet backbone routers. This rendered Blue's main website inaccessible outside Israel.
I was under the impression it was a Russian because the article says
a renegade Russian language speaking spammer known as PharmaMaster
Perhaps I'm not reading it right either...
But isn't PharmaMaster the guy behind the whole stink of it???
Cheers

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:08 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Hockey wrote:Not really...seeing how my stereotype was no where near condescending but rather full of flattery...
I wouldn't mind being called a genius by someone other than myself
I think your being overly sensitive...
On second though...I take that last comment back...if you found what I said offensive...I apologize...but I need you to know...it was not intended as being rude...but rather just an observation I have made over the years...
I'm just honest dude...and sometimes it offends people...but thats who I am...
I can't not voice my opinion just because I might hurt someones feelings...I mean I can...but in this context...where you and I will likely never meet...your feelings I guess take a second seat...on the contrary...if there was a good chance you and I might meet in person...I would likel not say anything I suspected might hurt your feelings...as person to person contact means much more to me...
I have strong opinions or I should feelings about alot of things and I cannto express those ideas, opinions or thought in person to person for that reason...the aura of someones feelings being hurt has a much harsher impact on me than does offending someone over a wire...because of that...I often use the Net to
"let it all out" if you will
Cheers - honestly didn't mean to offend anyone

I wasn't offended. We all have mouths (or in our case here, hands) and opinions. Mix the two and we get discussions

. After rereading, slowly, your original post I can see how you would say that was flattering. And I can easily agree with you that I was overreacting.
No harm, no foul. Keep being you dude. It makes this place a heckuva a lot more interesting

.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:21 pm
by alex.barylski
Everah wrote:Hockey wrote:Not really...seeing how my stereotype was no where near condescending but rather full of flattery...
I wouldn't mind being called a genius by someone other than myself
I think your being overly sensitive...
On second though...I take that last comment back...if you found what I said offensive...I apologize...but I need you to know...it was not intended as being rude...but rather just an observation I have made over the years...
I'm just honest dude...and sometimes it offends people...but thats who I am...
I can't not voice my opinion just because I might hurt someones feelings...I mean I can...but in this context...where you and I will likely never meet...your feelings I guess take a second seat...on the contrary...if there was a good chance you and I might meet in person...I would likel not say anything I suspected might hurt your feelings...as person to person contact means much more to me...
I have strong opinions or I should feelings about alot of things and I cannto express those ideas, opinions or thought in person to person for that reason...the aura of someones feelings being hurt has a much harsher impact on me than does offending someone over a wire...because of that...I often use the Net to
"let it all out" if you will
Cheers - honestly didn't mean to offend anyone

I wasn't offended. We all have mouths (or in our case here, hands) and opinions. Mix the two and we get discussions

. After rereading, slowly, your original post I can see how you would say that was flattering. And I can easily agree with you that I was overreacting.
No harm, no foul. Keep being you dude.
It makes this place a heckuva a lot more interesting 
.
Cool man
I appreciate your understanding...
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:23 am
by Weirdan
Those guys seem to be addicted to mastering the lowest level of programming and therefore often are incredible programmers...
Really obsessed with reverse engineering as all the books on assembly I have or have read, by Russians usually touched on this topic, which is stupid complex... Shocked
My observations exactly
There were a times I toyed with softice & ida for weeks =)
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:33 am
by shiznatix
i work with several russian programmers and it seams that they always want to be the best at it. They will become the best in their enviorment but the sacrafice any idea of a real social life. They will work like 10-11 hours a day (iv seen a russian here work for literally 20 hours straight once) even though they don't have to. I find these people mostly socially akward but very smart.
So yes I agree that there are many russians that are like that (very smart and do crazy things that are just like wow ok awesome) but I don't think that I would want to be like that (29, living with mommy, no girlfriend...).
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:38 am
by onion2k
shiznatix wrote:(29, living with mommy, no girlfriend...).
Onion hides.

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:21 am
by John Cartwright
shiznatix wrote:i work with several russian programmers and it seams that they always want to be the best at it. They will become the best in their enviorment but the sacrafice any idea of a real social life. They will work like 10-11 hours a day (iv seen a russian here work for literally 20 hours straight once) even though they don't have to. I find these people mostly socially akward but very smart.
So yes I agree that there are many russians that are like that (very smart and do crazy things that are just like wow ok awesome) but I don't think that I would want to be like that (29, living with mommy, no girlfriend...).
I know many people that do that, and I don't even know a Russian. I don't think it's fair to label a race like this because of your personal experiences. No pun intended.
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:36 am
by RobertGonzalez
I have known two Russian folks in my life. Both were security guards. One still is. She works her tail off everyday because she says that is what she should do as a good American citizen (she was naturalized a couple of years ago). Whatever task she is set to she does it without complaint and as though her reputation were on the line with every activity involved in it.
The other guy was a network fellow who couldn't hold down a job. He was constantly looking for ways to avoid work. Almost to the point were he worked harder at not working than at actually doing anything.
For me, in my experiences, I have found people on opposing ends of the spectrum from almost every nationality that I have encountered. That's kinda why I try to stay away from blanket labels. More than anything it is because I could not possibly cover everyone with the same blanket for their label.
EDIT | Is it just me, or does anyone else around here wish we had a spell checker? Man, I suck at spelling when my computer isn't telling me what I am doing wrong. 
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:42 am
by alex.barylski
shiznatix wrote:i work with several russian programmers and it seams that they always want to be the best at it. They will become the best in their enviorment but the sacrafice any idea of a real social life. They will work like 10-11 hours a day (iv seen a russian here work for literally 20 hours straight once) even though they don't have to. I find these people mostly socially akward but very smart.
So yes I agree that there are many russians that are like that (very smart and do crazy things that are just like wow ok awesome) but I don't think that I would want to be like that (29, living with mommy, no girlfriend...).
I frequently spend days focused on one problem...often working more than 10-15 hours sitting at my computer...I would say more often than not...
I'm 27...I still live at home...and I don't have a "girlfriend"

I don't think i'm socially inept though...
What I was getting at...was that...Russians have an almost congenital ability to solve crazy complex problems...
After all...they are the only other peoples outside of USA who managed to get into space (short of the Chinese a while back)...also managing to emulate the design of the Concorde with their own TU-144 (Concordski)
I don't know about the Russians, but the Americans had alot of outside help, many of them Canadians who bisbanded the Avro Arrow project after it was cancelled and went to NASA, Boeing, etc...
Cheers

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:06 am
by alex.barylski
Jcart wrote:shiznatix wrote:i work with several russian programmers and it seams that they always want to be the best at it. They will become the best in their enviorment but the sacrafice any idea of a real social life. They will work like 10-11 hours a day (iv seen a russian here work for literally 20 hours straight once) even though they don't have to. I find these people mostly socially akward but very smart.
So yes I agree that there are many russians that are like that (very smart and do crazy things that are just like wow ok awesome) but I don't think that I would want to be like that (29, living with mommy, no girlfriend...).
I know many people that do that, and I don't even know a Russian. I don't think it's fair to label a race like this because of your personal experiences. No pun intended.
I'm not labeling a race...as Russians are most typically Caucasian with the exception being Mongolian/Chinese influences in and around Siberia. I'm Caucasian and I do have a very small percentage of Russian in me, but for the sake of argument I am of Irish/Scottish/Polish/Ukranian decent...but if anyone asked me...I'm %110 pure bred Canadian beef...I suffered the pains of a Maple leaf tattoo on my neck to display my patriotism for my country...everything I wear is usually covered in maple leafs...I've long since dropped my background/heritage/culture in favour for my Canadian-ism
Just wanted to make that clear..
Anyways the point is...I'm Caucasian...as are Russians...but I did not label myself in that category...
Besides...it's a postive sterotype...how is it rude???
Every group of peoples have their positive and negative sterotypes...some are unfare and some are nice assests...I fail to understand why some people are so sensitive to that...C'est la vie...
For instance...you'll seldomly find a Native aboriginal male ever goes bald or even begins to loose his hair...I have countless native influence in my life...so I'm not even going to debate this further if you claim to know one or two...cause sure there are exceptions...but the majority...thats just the way genetics works...
Sometimes you get lucky and other times...you loose!!!
Look at many professional athletes...in all sports outside of Hockey...physical sports...Black guys are usually best of breed...they run faster...play harder...and therefore make awesome, entertaining athletes...
When was the last any white man or chinese fellow won the 100M dash at the olympics???
I remember running track in highschool...and even at that level I got *schooled* but some black kid who was like 2 years younger than me...
I watched a showed on Discovery about this a while back...and the researchers even said...basically what I am saying, but more professionally...some people are physically engineered to perform better than others...
Bodybuilding is another good example...I don't have what it takes to ever become a IFBB weight lifter...thats something I've long since accepted...
Anyways...I knew I would get flamed for making such a comment that was so in favour of a specific group of peoples....really it is a compliment...not an insult...
But those are my arguments in my defense....
Cheers

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:16 am
by alex.barylski
Everah wrote:I have known two Russian folks in my life. Both were security guards. One still is. She works her tail off everyday because she says that is what she should do as a good American citizen (she was naturalized a couple of years ago). Whatever task she is set to she does it without complaint and as though her reputation were on the line with every activity involved in it.
The other guy was a network fellow who couldn't hold down a job. He was constantly looking for ways to avoid work. Almost to the point were he worked harder at not working than at actually doing anything.
For me, in my experiences, I have found people on opposing ends of the spectrum from almost every nationality that I have encountered. That's kinda why I try to stay away from blanket labels. More than anything it is because I could not possibly cover everyone with the same blanket for their label.
EDIT | Is it just me, or does anyone else around here wish we had a spell checker? Man, I suck at spelling when my computer isn't telling me what I am doing wrong. 
Fare enough...I realize and understand that everyone is different...but I also realize that...sterotypes exist for a reason...thats just life...I've fallen under many in my time on earth...
It's rediculous to say that groups of people (either by race, culture, etc) don't inherit sterotypes...
Perhaps...my saying that Russians are brilliant...was a bit *off* as clearly thats not true...I've known Russians that were morons...only causing trouble...
My point was...and still is...most low-level programming books, etc are often done by Russians...
There are 300+ million people in Russia...so obviously there are going to be strays who go there own way...
But in the programming community...they are often unreal developers...
Cheers
