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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:11 pm
by daedalus__
Then the question is: Ruby or PHP?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:08 pm
by Christopher
Daedalus- wrote:Then the question is: Ruby or PHP?
No, the question is: With so many great languages and frameworks ... how can I get more time!

Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, C# ... this are good times for web developers.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:10 pm
by Luke
yes I remember the days when my options were perl and javascript... (well php was there but I didn't know about it and java was out of my realm of understanding)

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:25 pm
by Roja
hydroxide wrote:The Ruby scripting language is every bit as flexible as PHP as far as I know
Research more. You'll find there are substantial areas where that is not accurate. Those areas may not be important to you.
hydroxide wrote:and PHP doesn't come with an effective framework solution that rails so nicely lays out.
Ruby doesn't come with Rails. It offers an easy way to install one, which is what PEAR will do for the Zend Framework, when it is completed. Also keep in mind that there are several dozen alternative frameworks available for PHP. Whether you consider any of those individual choices "effective" or not, they are in use, and in development.
hydroxide wrote:So on the pure basis of language vs language there probably isn't much difference
On the contrary, there is substantial difference between the languages. Ruby is at its heart OOP. PHP started with procedural code, and has matured to include a robust OOP infrastructure - giving a solid presence in both worlds. Ruby is substantially limited in many ways, and thats just one example. Compare building extensions to the language, raw I/O work, and more, and you'll find that the statement "there isn't much difference" is just wrong.

I'm not the first to say it, and certainly not the best at saying it.
hydroxide wrote:but the framework and development nuances are what rails is all about. So with that in mind, why wouldn't you switch over to Rails?
Once more, this time with bold: Because its framework and nuances aren't the nuances that match my development preferences.

Why do you keep asking about why people are not eating chocolate? The vanilla tastes great!

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:31 pm
by Luke
Roja wrote:Why do you keep asking about why people are not eating chocolate? The vanilla tastes great!
Bad comparison... chocolate is always the way to go... in any situation... no matter what.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:20 pm
by RobertGonzalez
hydroxide wrote:
Daedalus- wrote:I wouldn't because I like to write code.

Rails is just that: a Framework.

I don't want to spend my time working inside of a Framework that isn't my own. That's boring. If I wanted to focus on the presentation of a website I would have become a designer.

The thing is with rails is that it provides an initial framework, but as soon as you want to make something your own, you can take control of it and remove the "scaffolding".
It sounds like you want someone here to agree with you that you should become a RoR developer. I'll do that. Go ahead. Enjoy it.

As for me, I like being able to go to just about any host, drop my developed apps on their server and have them run. And if, for some reason they don't, I like to be able to ask a seasoned PHP developer why they think it doesn't. There are no shortages of any of these factors.

As for Ruby... it has its place, as does Java, C#, C++, etc. Probably not so much on a forum dedicated to the PHP language, but it does have its place.

When it gets to the point where PHP is now, with the user base, the tutorials and forums, the access to as many hosts as PHP and the freely available nature of along with the ease in which you can get it, I might consider learning it. Until then, Free Linux, Free Apache, Free MySQL and Free PHP do it just fine for me.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:21 pm
by RobertGonzalez
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:
Roja wrote:Why do you keep asking about why people are not eating chocolate? The vanilla tastes great!
Bad comparison... chocolate is always the way to go... in any situation... no matter what.
Focus Ninja, Focus. You are on the verge of getting another PHPDN award for next year... :wink:

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:36 pm
by Luke
I'll never be get the official john eaton award. :x :cry:

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:56 pm
by RobertGonzalez
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I'll never be get the official john eaton award. :x :cry:
Maybe John Eaton can give it to you...

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:55 pm
by daedalus__
Who is John Eaton?

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:15 am
by Luke

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:17 am
by daedalus__
I don't know him but he has funny looking nipples.

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:07 am
by RobertGonzalez
That was funny. :lol:

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:16 am
by daedalus__
I don't really want to re-kindle the fire but I found this article:

http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat ... w-centric/

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:56 am
by patrikG
Rails offers a rapid development framework for Ruby - which is different to just "a" framework (a la a (coherent) library of classes to speed up development). It offers an inherent "meta-layer" for CRUD, scaffolding, inherent MVC, ActiveRecord and more.

There are a number of implementations of Rails in PHP, among them CakePHP which works seamlessly with PHP5 and 4, and Symfony which is based on the Mojavi-framework (PHP5 only). Before you say: "I'm bored/don't like/hate the restraints of someone else's framework", try them out. They are very powerful and save a lot of time, more than your usual homebaked development framework (consisting of a probably a db-, session-, caching-, user- and what-have-you- class).

For CakePHP, there's a nice introduction at http://www.sitepoint.com/article/applic ... nt-cakephp

I've played around with CakePHP and am seriously impressed with it's capabilities and what it offers and am currently using it for a project.

P.S.: NinjaSpaceGoat - just because you can doesn't mean you have to attempt to take threads off topic. You don't have to live up to your award all the time.