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RoR a replacement for PHP?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:18 am
by hydroxide
Given the shout about RoR being so fast with development times... Why learn/use PHP anymore when RoR is being heralded as being so much better? Could someone give me some insight as to why I should continue using php to solve my personal coding needs as opposed to RoR?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:25 am
by malcolmboston
obviously you are going to get biased replies seeing as most of us at least program primarily in PHP

an 'unbiased' opinion can be found here:

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303221

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:30 am
by hydroxide
malcolmboston wrote:obviously you are going to get biased replies seeing as most of us at least program primarily in PHP

an 'unbiased' opinion can be found here:

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303221
Well maybe I'll go to a RoR site and get their biased opinions and then make a judgment :D

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:31 am
by MrPotatoes
i program in a slew of languages and i'm pretty objective

here is the deal. you can't compare PHP and ROR. why? ROR is a framework built on Ruby. it's like compairing the building materials to make a sky scraper and the materials and a foreman and all his underpaid workers. it's not a comparison.

now, if you were to compare it to say Cake, or CodeIgniter or say SpudsWare then yes. then you can compare it. otherwise you can't even begin to do so. it's not fair

Re: RoR a replacement for PHP?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:38 am
by Roja
hydroxide wrote:Given the shout about RoR being so fast with development times...
For specific requirements, in specific areas, with specific development styles.
hydroxide wrote:Why learn/use PHP anymore when RoR is being heralded as being so much better?
On a purely theoretical "everything being equal" basis, for the other areas that RoR isn't so much better. But in reality, everything isn't equal. Ignoring the above issues (which are not trivial), there are also platform issues, like how many hosts offer Ruby v. PHP, how many coders are comfortable with it, and what documentation you can get discussing it.
hydroxide wrote:Could someone give me some insight as to why I should continue using php to solve my personal coding needs as opposed to RoR?
"Can someone tell me why I should continue eating Vanilla ice cream to solve my personal hunger as opposed to eating Chocolate?"

Nope. While there are real-world differences between the two, its more than anything a matter of taste/choice - which no one else can answer for you.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:01 am
by Luke
It seems to me (but I haven't really had a chance to mess with RoR much yet) that RoR takes a lot of the control out of the hands of the developer.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:20 am
by onion2k
If you're writing applications properly you should be spliting your time approximately 40% planning, 20% coding, 40% testing. Even if RoR takes half the coding time, your app dev time isn't going to change all that much.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:22 am
by Luke
Well... I'm 100% PHP support, but shaving any little bit off development time helps... people will jump through burning hoops of doom to cut off 2% development time (I've seen it with my own eyes! :twisted: ).

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:25 am
by daedalus__
Developing is the fun part, why would anyone want to take the fun out of the job?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:45 am
by hydroxide
The Ruby scripting language is every bit as flexible as PHP as far as I know... and PHP doesn't come with an effective framework solution that rails so nicely lays out. So on the pure basis of language vs language there probably isn't much difference, but the framework and development nuances are what rails is all about. So with that in mind, why wouldn't you switch over to Rails?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:54 am
by Luke
I <3 PHP

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:58 am
by Chris Corbyn
hydroxide wrote:So with that in mind, why wouldn't you switch over to Rails?
I have this odd feeling of deja-vu. This topic has been discussed here a few times.

I like PHP, I'm comfortable with it and it's installed on LOTS of public servers. Ruby isn't on many servers. Oh, I'll ask a stupid question: Is it free? Also, how does it compare in terms of raw performance in comparison to PHP?

I don't say I wouldn't switch to using Ruby, I'm not that stubborn but nothing is entising me to switch in the slightest right now.

Re: RoR a replacement for PHP?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:01 pm
by Christopher
hydroxide wrote:Given the shout about RoR being so fast with development times... Why learn/use PHP anymore when RoR is being heralded as being so much better?
I am not sure it is "heralded as being so much better" but that it does what it does so well. RoR is probably the Pop Star of the Convention over Configuration movement, as well as showing how Full Stack frameworks can promote ease of use. It is a really brilliant framework -- very influential -- as is the Ruby language. It was certainly a breath of fresh air to give up a little to get a lot as opposed to Java for example where you gave up little to get a lot plus some.
hydroxide wrote:Could someone give me some insight as to why I should continue using php to solve my personal coding needs as opposed to RoR?
First and formost they are different languages with different cultures and different styles of programming. One is not better than the other, both are excellent and you will suffer from an embarassment of riches either way. Ruby is a purer OO language, PHP allows pure or mixed or procedural styles. If you prefer one of those styles then that is a big determining factor. Additionally PHP has a huge installed and code base, so there are lots of options available. That has been PHP strong suit for a long time, mainly because it is focused on web development whereas other languages (like Ruby) are general purpose languages.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:02 pm
by daedalus__
I wouldn't because I like to write code.

Rails is just that: a Framework.

I don't want to spend my time working inside of a Framework that isn't my own. That's boring. If I wanted to focus on the presentation of a website I would have become a designer.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:09 pm
by hydroxide
Daedalus- wrote:I wouldn't because I like to write code.

Rails is just that: a Framework.

I don't want to spend my time working inside of a Framework that isn't my own. That's boring. If I wanted to focus on the presentation of a website I would have become a designer.

The thing is with rails is that it provides an initial framework, but as soon as you want to make something your own, you can take control of it and remove the "scaffolding".