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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:32 pm
by matthijs
Doping is one big pile of hypocracy. And it's certainly not only the athletes themselves. All others involved play a role as well. Organizers, doctors, trainers, sport organisations (like UCI and WADA in cycling) etc etc. They all know what's happening, but only think about their own interests. And those interests have nothing to do with the health of the athletes or the fairness of the sport.

1. topsport isn't healthy. The Tour certainly isn't. For example, seen all those massive falls?
2. Sport isn't fair. Hell, the fact one athlete is faster or better then the other is the thing that makes sport interesting!

Looking at the doping itself: that list needs a thorough cleanup. Substances that don't do anything are on it. Substances that do help are not. Tests are arbitrary and unreliable. False-positives do happen (a lot?). Certainly if you look at hormones. That's one difficult area in which even the brightest scientists disagree on how things work.

Looking at legislation (or lack thereoff): Unfortunately for the athletes they are guilty AND punished even before anything is proven. Absolutely no chance to defend themselfes. Imagine if the same would happen in other areas. I would be lifted of my bed, thrown in jail, get fired from my job, get publicity in all journals including my name and picture. No laywer. No defense. 2 years later: o sorry Matthijs, maybe our evidence wasn't that good after all. You're free to go. Sorry to have troubled you, good luck with the rest of your live....

I am also in favor of regulating the "medical care" of athletes some other way. Maybe not giving it totally free, but completely different then it is now.

So Hockey, if you want to achieve those average speeds as well, don't feel bad if you need some extra caffeine, epo or other stuff :)

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:16 pm
by alex.barylski
Whoa 8O

That was typed with passion... :)

I'm just saying, maybe it's time athletes were allowed to use performance enhancing drugs...

I just don't understand oppressive behavior towards it in professional sport...it should be the athletes choice...

Having sex with or without a condom, know what I mean?

It happens, and happens alot in every sport...Mike/Mark McGuire and that Sammy Sosa or whatever...weren't they admittedly using enhancment drugs?

Not sure about hockey, haven't heard anything, but I'm sure they do to...

And the false positives...it's silly...

Lance Armstrong, who by all accounts is an amazing athlete, after I read his story I was blown away by that mans ability (Like a new millenium Terry Fox) to rebound and compete in a race like that...

If you read his Wikipedia, there is a story in there about his drug allegations because they detected a hormone enhacment or steriod of sorts, but he claims it was from a cream he used because of saddle sores...which makes sense, as those creams (like creams for acne, exzema, etc) are stoeriods I think...

The tests reveiled to little for the title to taken away from Armstrong, clearly indicating it was likely used for just that, as a cream wouldn't give your body that much of a steriod when compred to direct injection, via a needle or maybe a pill...

My point is...drugs are so common place...so why not allow them...but all accounts not many of us are purely natural anymore...

I take sleeping pills occasionally when I have insomnia, I take Tylenol when I have a headache and just recently I'm on pills for anxiety/anger (when I get mad I break things :P )

It's not natural, but it helps and makes my life easier...so where is the difference in performance enhacment drugs???

If everyone was allowed to take them, it would be fair, and those that didn't could be admired & respected more...

By oppressing the use, your making it possible for cheaters to exist, as there will always be someone who will use them...regardless of legality, etc...

If you allowed them, then there would be cheaters and these annoying allegations, etc wouldn't exist and my time and yours wouldn't be wasted villanizing athletes...

I don't know, I'm 2 fold on the subject...

On one hand I see a reason to just allow it, as it's never gonna stop anyways and some will figure out ways to use them and beat the tests...

And on the other, it's a prinicple which sport was founded on countless centuries ago...cheaters are losers...

I just don't know...sometimes change is good...but who knows with this one...

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:37 am
by matthijs
Hockey wrote:That was typed with passion...
Yeah, sorry about that ... it's just that I'm passionate about sports and have a lot of respect for those athletes. Even though I know it's not always clean. But that's not only the athletes. It's the system. And to see how these athletes are treated... well, I'll shut up before I fill another long post ..
My point is...drugs are so common place...so why not allow them...but all accounts not many of us are purely natural anymore...
Indeed. How do you think those rich bobo's from the UCI, WADA, IOC etc keep up their work? Without any coffee? Without any drugs? What if they get sick? Do they refuse treatment?

I'm not saying that everyone should be able to just use anything. I would prefer a totally clean sport. But the reality is that as it is now, it's worse then if you would allow any athlete to take care of themselves in a safe and responsible way, together with a good doctor. In a transparent way.

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:43 am
by feyd
This thread's going political guys. I'd suggest you either keep it down or take it to out of the public forum, say private messaging.

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:04 am
by matthijs
Sorry about that.. will do.