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I want to code for money, but theres something in the way.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:20 pm
by kaoskorruption
I've gotten good enough with web design and php that I want to code for money. I'm only 15, so I couldn't really get a job anywhere coding, except for maybe an internship, but those are hard to find. I want to make an online buisness to make websites for people. Not huge websites, but smaller websites - for example, a site for a sports team, or for a family pictures album, or for a gaming community. That type of smaller website that does not require constant development. Reason for wanting to is: coding is a hobby, which I'm good at, and also for the money. I'm tired of coding stupid things that don't provide cash nor become useful pieces of software that people actually use.

In order to do that, I would need paypal, or some other method of payment over the internet. But with my age being so young, that would involve my parents signing up with their credit card.

Heres the problem: My parents wouldn't approve, at least not my dad. He seems to have this impression that my code is somehow bad because I'm not an adult professional coder that works for some big corporation. He also seems to think that at my age I should not be with that sort of responsibility. Btw, he is a manager at SAS (some big software company) - that might be a tiny part of why he is SO harsh on coding quality even though my quality is always grade A =D It's hard enough to talk to him about small things, so I have no idea how I am supposed to tell him. I can tell my mom, and I know she would think that this is a very good idea though.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:24 pm
by Luke
I don't think it's really legal for you to do business w/out consent of parents anyway... regardless of credit cards, but I don't know that for sure. I was in the same boat for a while, and then I realized I didn't know how to run a business, or promote it for that matter. Anyway... why don't you start working on a LARGE project then... come up with an idea for a site and make it kickass. that's what I'm doing.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:34 pm
by d3ad1ysp0rk
If you have any type of bank account (checking OR savings), you can deposit checks or money orders to it.

Also, when you use checks, you don't incur paypal fees.

I do "professional" freelancing, and we use checks. There's nothing wrong with it, and I'd suggest it.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:36 pm
by kaoskorruption
I don't think this would really count as working, because I can do it whenever I want, wherever I want, I have no boss, and there is no specific amount of money being made. It's probably closer to all of the younger people that put advertisements up on their websites or accept "donations" and make money off of them that way.

Anyways, I've thought about promotion and such, which I don't think is really that hard. I mean, I only need a couple of websites at a time. To me promotion will be as simple as putting up a website explaining my services, and within the online communities that I'm part of, offering some people to make a website. For example, one community is a bunch of private gaming servers, which many of need websites. I also have a lot of real life friends that have game servers that need websites for them too. I figure that should be enough to get a few websites at a time at least.

Checks would probably also work. It doesn't solve the problem with my dad being anal, but it's still an idea. Just a question about checks though - isn't there something where local banks don't like to accept checks from banks in other places?

why don't you start working on a LARGE project then... come up with an idea for a site and make it kickass. that's what I'm doing.
I've strongly considered that, and even tried it, but usually the "LARGE" project ends up being over my head. For example, I tried to make a game in PHP, kind of like an RPG, without the graphical world. Somewhat like the old text RPGs only with images, items, and other players to talk to. Even that seemed to get huge and over my head. After that I got into a javascript online RPG that moved to a downloadable exe file because of limitations of javascript. It used a PHP server. But that has proven to be "over my head" because working on both a complicated server and client at the same time is slow and annoying.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:41 pm
by feyd
Are you doing something? yes.
Are you getting paid for it? yes
Congratulations, you're working.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:44 pm
by kaoskorruption
Ok good point. It is work. But so is mowing people's grass for money, or helping around the house and getting a weekly allowance. Those in your terms are work, but none of those would require taxes, parental approval, or any age limitations.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:49 pm
by feyd
kaoskorruption wrote:Ok good point. It is work. But so is mowing people's grass for money, or helping around the house and getting a weekly allowance. Those in your terms are work, but none of those would require taxes, parental approval, or any age limitations.
Technically, they do require taxes provided you are taxable, but few care. Although I'm sure someone in the government cares. Image

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:52 pm
by kaoskorruption
Technically, they do require taxes provided you are taxable, but few care. Although I'm sure someone in the government cares.
Yeah that's true now that I think about it. But have you ever herd of some kid getting arrested for not paying taxes on money that he got on allowance or from mowing the neighbors yard? Haha the government really does not care so much about small stuff like that. If they did, they wouldn't have the time to deal with big things like people that make millions a year and don't pay tax on that.

So I guess what I'm saying is, paying taxes is not a concern to me. It's just getting parental approval, and then actually making progress with the plan.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:54 pm
by Luke
Your dad sounds like my parents when i started... except they were more like "Luke, stop playing on the computer!"

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:00 pm
by kaoskorruption
Haha I used to be self conscious about me coding because I didn't want my parents to be all "what are you doing", "what kinda program are you making" etc, so I would just pretend to play a game when they walked past and go back to coding later. Now that I think about it, that was really stupid but it's funny. One time I was up till 3am coding some big thing and my parents got <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> that I was up that late "playing video games". I ended up getting grounded for that, but if I had just told them I was coding, they woulda probably let off a bit.

Edit: Very nice censoring system these forums have =P *Smurf* haha

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:04 pm
by Benjamin
Have your clients fedex cash to you :wink:

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:06 pm
by kaoskorruption
LMAO that's an idea. A stupid idea though. I can imagine my parents fining fedex envelopes in the mail and being like "what is this!?". I could however just do business locally, and get paid in person to do websites.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:26 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Tax is a matter for a CPA. Certain amounts of income aren't unless they hit a certain level. Ask a tax professional about that. As for your parents, being a parent, if I don't want my kids doing something then I don't allow them to do it. I would never offer the suggestion that you should disobey your parents. However, if it is something that you really want to do, talk with your parents and have an answer for every question they throw at you. I have done this with my kids (10 and 9) and I can say that age doesn't always affect the outcome. Show me why your idea is good and we may be able to get to work on it.

As for collecting monies... People on the internet like the ability to pay by credit card. Paypal can accept Credit Card payments for your account even if you don't have a credit card. I would suggest you look into Paypal and their services. But before you do anything, get your parents', both of them, consent. Disobedience is usually met with savage discipline when seen as defiance by parents.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:48 pm
by kaoskorruption
Yeah I agree with that. I hate disobeying my parents because it can really ruin our relationship. (Not that there really is a relationship with my dad :() But yeah, I'll talk to them, and I agree with your kids - age does not always affect everything.

On the other hand, I have a lot of my own morals and values, and if something that I want to do does not go against my own values, even if it does go against what my parents agree with, I usually try not to let them stop me. Often I consider my parents quite unreasonable, especially after seeing how most of my friends parents are. So when I really want to do something like this, I will find a way eventually. But lets not get into parent and child relationships too much.

In this case though I am not going to do anything without parental approval. Because it won't work, and because it's no fun without approval.

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:22 am
by Chris Corbyn
I'm not sure on the legalities but I imagine being 15 it would technically be illegal to do what I'm suggesting. I also imagine that it wouldn't be seen as a big deal in reality though.

Approach small businesses in your local area (hair salons, bars, hotels, the little candy store on the corner...). Inform them of your age from the start so they aren't mislead, then explain that you would like to go into a career professionally as a developer and in order to do that you would benefit hugely from some small paid projects now. You would use them to build up a portfolio. I imagine a fair few businesses would jump at the chance if they don't already have a web presence and would likely just pay you in cash but perhaps not for a great amount of money. Once you've done a few, people talk to each other and you may start getting referrals.

Like I say, I imagine that legally your age gets in the way here but many busineses would be happy to quietly pay you in cash for it if it's just a one-off.