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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:01 pm
by Oren
Hockey wrote:Programming is about the only engineering profession I can htink of that doesn't have absolute guidlines to follow...
Damn you, that's exactly what I thought to myself the other day!

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:10 pm
by feyd
I don't want to get into a large debate here so I'll refrain from responding to some things and skip to the meat.
Hockey wrote:Programming is about the only engineering profession I can htink of that doesn't have absolute guidlines to follow...I may be wrong as I'm not an engineer, but I've been in contact with many professors, engineers, etc over the years via email, person, etc...and this is definetely the impression I'm left with :)
Most other engineers don't have as many choices as we do. We literally have millions of combinations of choices at almost any given time to get from point a to point b.
Hockey wrote:This industry needs more hardened standards...
There are a few programming languages out there that are extremely strict in codestyle by enforcing it in the compiler. Now, as far as I know, they aren't doing so well compared to similar their peer solutions that aren't as strict in codestyle. If you want more strict conventions, Java may be of interest. :)

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:23 pm
by Oren
feyd wrote:Most other engineers don't have as many choices as we do. We literally have millions of combinations of choices at almost any given time to get from point a to point b.
Exactly. I find this, sometimes, confusing as you are not sure which way to take.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:29 pm
by Jenk
My take on this thread was that if anyone wants to browse it and see the different styles people use (it is styling after all..) and they can pick or chose whichever they want.

Admittedly I didn't read all of the first post, but I didn't get any inclination that this was aimed at getting an agreed style for the boards. I thought perhaps Hockey is like me and changes styles more often than I change underwear..

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:59 pm
by s.dot
IMO, I think a set style for the boards would imply to readers that this particular style is "correct" and "the way it should be". With that said, I disagree. With coding style flexibility an option, that just makes it more appealing to users who feel more comfortable with style A than style B. Or, it may discourage others from developing their own style like I and many others have.

I think I might just code on one line from now on.

Code: Select all

if($var===true){$content='this';}else{$content='somethingelse'}$array=newarray();for($i=0;$i<100;$i++){$aray[]=$data;}echo'<pre>';print_r($data);echo'</pre>';

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:13 pm
by RobertGonzalez
I think what hockey was trying to do was to establish a standard for code submitted on the boards. Nothing more, nothing less. Unles I read this thread wrong, it just appears that, given the various conventions available to PHP developers, there is a wealth of variety that we, on these boards, may face by either submitted code for review or by submitted code for inspection. Either way, their is not standard use on the boards.

As for a 'right' way or a 'wrong' way, I don't think that was the intent hockey had. I think he was shooting for the PHPDN 'accepted' way of coding. Either way, this has been a good discussion on coding. Howerver, I think many of us are set in out ways when it comes to our conventions and trying to get anyone to change them is going to be difficult if not impossible.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:08 pm
by Christopher
Hockey wrote:Programming is about the only engineering profession I can htink of that doesn't have absolute guidlines to follow...I may be wrong as I'm not an engineer, but I've been in contact with many professors, engineers, etc over the years via email, person, etc...and this is definetely the impression I'm left with :)

No wonder software is so buggy compared to other engineering practices...

This industry needs more hardened standards...blueprints if you will...and coding conventions is one of them...IMHO anyways...
First of all, in most of the professions you mention you need to pass examinations to be certified -- whereas most programmers are truly amatuers.

Our industry has a huge body of standards and practices, but many programmers seem more interested in underscores than dealing with the important aspects of software engineering for the quite simple reason that they are (like similar issues in other professions you mention) -- difficult.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:11 pm
by alex.barylski
As for a 'right' way or a 'wrong' way, I don't think that was the intent hockey had.
That is correct...partially...as I believe to some degree even something as creative as code styling has some good points and bad points...

My reasoning was that a dozen minds would be able to come to a census which was solid or at least as solid as solid could be given the context :)
Howerver, I think many of us are set in out ways when it comes to our conventions and trying to get anyone to change them is going to be difficult if not impossible
Agreed... :P

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:17 pm
by feyd
I would have expected electrified gelatinous goo, instead of solid decisions. These conversations rarely end in a simple consensus. They take great lengths of time to hammer out in finite detail unless participants simply don't care what decision is made. This is analogous to the passing of a law in the US I think. Someone makes a proposal, it's discussed for weeks, either denied or passed, then moves to the other house for a repeat. It takes a long time, it's difficult and generates a lot of paper.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:46 pm
by alex.barylski
^^^ Exactly... :P

I made a reference to in regards to the house of commons...see above :)

Anyways, I was guessing it wouldn't happen overnight we'd all settle on any given convention...

I figured we could each (those that wanted) make a claim for our case and the community would vote (hopefully non-biased) on a convention, majority rules, just like laws... :)

What's good for the gaggle, in this case, is good for the goose as well :P

I always approach everything with a democratic mindset...as I'm a firm believer in: two heads are better than one :)

I figured a solid "open" community who appeared so accepting of standards, compliance, etc would consider it an open invitation to hammer something out...

Instead, I get opposition and innuendoes hinting at my lack of experience

Freedom of speach is absolutely very important to me, so I like when people speak their minds...of course I also can appreciate people when their polite about it too...but still... :)

I say...this argument continues, as it's for the good of a community and it's source code...I don't think I will contribute any more thoughts on the subjet though, so if anyone else doesn't I guess this thread will die a slow painful death 8O

Also, if you can't justify your answers with rational arguments, not just "Because everything Hockey says is stupid and cuz he's a silly, inexperienced, poopey-head programmer" well then, your voting rights should be revoked :lol:

p.s-There will be no paper work...as everything here is electronic...so no worries about the environment :wink: