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Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:08 pm
by alex.barylski
Sooooo...I have a project which I started quite a while back...and haven't touched since although I use it for editing my own site...

I was considering selling it as a commercial script...but after receiving just over 1,400 unique hits in one month...I didn't even so much get a question in regards to price, etc...

So i've dropped the idea of selling it...and considered open source as a solution...in retrospect I'm actually kinda glad I didnt' sell it, as admittedly it's poorly designed for my personal standards...some design went into it, but mostly it's a hack.

To submit under open source, I think I'm going with LPGL...but one question I have:

Does this allow people to change the entire HTML layout/design? What about removing copyright notieces...I might as well load it with branding messages, copyrights, etc...so I potentially get some visitors to my site...right? What exactly are people allowed to legally remove when working on a LGPL project? They can't claim it to be their own...but they also shouldn't be able to remove visible copyrights, can they???

I need that question answered thouroughly as possible...as I don't want to find out later I was wrong and get <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> off, etc...

Secondly...I started a SF project a while back...but I've always hated SF...it's overly complicated when all you want to do is download something quickly and get on with it...

So I'm considering Google code repository...
1) Anyone find it to be better? I haven't looked at any projects yet so I can't say
2) Anyone have a GMail account they can share set me up with one so I can create a new project?
3) Does LGPL fall under the Google allowable licesnes B$?
4) Zend...the next iteration of the license...the Zend framework license...what's it going to be (basically explained - not exact as I know it's still in development) will it be compatible with LGPL? Does LGPL protect my HTML interface for my web application as much as it does the source code comment stubs - which no one but develoeprs see...

Should I consider using a Creative Commons license instead? Does SF or Google allow this license?

Edit: Is it worth submitting a hack project? At least for generating feedback for my second version which will be a re-write likely using Zend framework?

Edit2: I just looked at a project on Google...I much prefer it's layout, etc...easy to begin downloading, but you cannot host a custom web page it appears...whereas SF does allow you to tweak everything... (AKAPJ has a couple nice sites) thats a bonus...Plus Google does offer a web interface to SVN so you need to use a client program??? Thats a bummer...unless I"m mistaken? In anycase I think SF for now is the way to go...besides it's recently started to support SVN...so yea...SF it is

Cheers :)

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:50 pm
by feyd
Hockey wrote:Does this allow people to change the entire HTML layout/design? What about removing copyright notieces...I might as well load it with branding messages, copyrights, etc...so I potentially get some visitors to my site...right? What exactly are people allowed to legally remove when working on a LGPL project? They can't claim it to be their own...but they also shouldn't be able to remove visible copyrights, can they???
Read the FSF's pages on it and read the document itself. It's all spelled out. I'm not going to distill it for you.
Hockey wrote:Secondly...I started a SF project a while back...but I've always hated SF...it's overly complicated when all you want to do is download something quickly and get on with it...
So apparently, you've made up your mind to not use SourceForge already.
Hockey wrote:So I'm considering Google code repository...
1) Anyone find it to be better? I haven't looked at any projects yet so I can't say
Well, it's only been around for a short time, so that's a weighted question. I will say that getting a project approved is shall I say, a very quick process.
Hockey wrote:2) Anyone have a GMail account they can share set me up with one so I can create a new project?
yes.
Hockey wrote:3) Does LGPL fall under the Google allowable licesnes B$?
I believe a simple poke around the Google Code site will show you want they allow.
Hockey wrote:4) Zend...the next iteration of the license...the Zend framework license...what's it going to be (basically explained - not exact as I know it's still in development) will it be compatible with LGPL? Does LGPL protect my HTML interface for my web application as much as it does the source code comment stubs - which no one but develoeprs see...
I've already answered this question in another of your praise -- no --, annoyed-by -- no --, praise Zend threads. Here's the skinny: go to FSF, read what they have to say on it. Yes, amazingly, they have talked about it.
Hockey wrote:Should I consider using a Creative Commons license instead? Does SF or Google allow this license?
For that you should really read their respective sites, FAQs and such. In other words, you can answer it yourself.
Hockey wrote:Edit: Is it worth submitting a hack project?
Maybe.
Hockey wrote:At least for generating feedback for my second version which will be a re-write likely using Zend framework?
I don't think using Zend or not gives you any more or less weight. It may in some circles, but it certainly doesn't with me.
Hockey wrote:Edit2: I just looked at a project on Google...I much prefer it's layout, etc...easy to begin downloading, but you cannot host a custom web page it appears...whereas SF does allow you to tweak everything... (AKAPJ has a couple nice sites) thats a bonus...Plus Google does offer a web interface to SVN so you need to use a client program??? Thats a bummer...unless I"m mistaken? In anycase I think SF for now is the way to go...besides it's recently started to support SVN...so yea...SF it is
You have to use a client with either one. As for hosted pages, I never cared for it. If there's a need for a support site, I'd run it separately where I have more control over the environment.

[edit] fixed a missing quote tag.

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:04 pm
by alex.barylski
Read the FSF's pages on it and read the document itself. It's all spelled out. I'm not going to distill it for you.
Come on...don't be a spoil sport...quit being lazy :P

Honestly I did read it...and I can't tell how HTML front end code would be handled as it mostly referes to compiled libraries and projects which *use* or *derive* from LGPL code...this is an application...written in PHP...I don't care if anyone uses the code, but if they use the whole thing on a client site (which I hope they don't just yet :P) then...I'd like it if my small little copyright notice atthe bottom of every page stayed in contact...so anyone using the program could see who developed it originally...
So apparently, you've made up your mind to not use SourceForge already.
Keep reading :P

I've decided to go with SF actually...sorry...you can ignore that part now :)
I've already answered this question in another of your praise -- no --, annoyed-by -- no --, praise Zend threads
I'm not praising Zend...believe me...it's just...considering the options...I think their the best solution for my project...
For that you should really read their respective sites, FAQs and such. In other words, you can answer it yourself.
I could spend hours sifting through legal mumbo jumbo :P or I could ask what a communities general census is...and take it from there... :)

I'll re-read...on FSF see if that explains it differently than the original LGPL license... :?
Maybe.
I will...I want some feedback...suggestions, etc...it's approach to solving the problem of content management is somewhat unique, as I haven't found many CMS that do as I have done, although it's not ideal, it does simplfy the process IMHO, which is good for basic web sites for small/medium business....

I'm re-writting it using Zend framework...I'll have a try at using a *formal* front controller...see what I like and dislike...etc...
I don't think using Zend or not gives you any more or less weight. It may in some circles, but it certainly doesn't with me
Huh? I'm lost by what you mean there...weight as in what? Project strength? It'll make a huge difference believe me...firstlt because some of those helper classes will really ease development of boring tasks...secondly...I'm re-writting the entire codebase...I'm changing alot of how it's structured, etc...version 2.0 will be *much* better...not just because of Zend, but overall... :P Zend ain't that fantastic...
You have to use a client with either one. As for hosted pages, I never cared for it
Really? Shoot...I thought SF offered a web based interface...not sure how much sense that would make...but for now as long as I can upload a zip...that's all that matters...as I'm the sole developer SVN won't be "that" handy anyways...
If there's a need for a support site, I'd run it separately where I have more control over the environment
Perhaps, but the TODO, Bug Tracker, Forums, etc...all nice features to have in one repository I think...

Cheers :)

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:29 pm
by feyd
Hockey wrote:I'm not praising Zend...believe me...it's just...considering the options...I think their the best solution for my project...
Well your threads of late sure seem like you're brown nosing them a bit too hard.
Hockey wrote:I could spend hours sifting through legal mumbo jumbo :P or I could ask what a communities general census is...and take it from there... :)
Hmm.. I generally go to the source first, then ask questions later after I have an understanding of what the source says. Legal talk is fairly straight forward most of the time for me. I'm likely in the small market on that one, but like engineering level manuals, they just make sense.. far more than anything cooked up by "for dummies" or the like.
Hockey wrote:I will...I want some feedback...suggestions, etc...it's approach to solving the problem of content management is somewhat unique, as I haven't found many CMS that do as I have done, although it's not ideal, it does simplfy the process IMHO, which is good for basic web sites for small/medium business....
Well I can't judge it until I can get into the code if that's what you're asking so even though you may call it a hack job, I may not agree completely.
Hockey wrote:Huh? I'm lost by what you mean there...weight as in what? Project strength? It'll make a huge difference believe me...firstlt because some of those helper classes will really ease development of boring tasks...secondly...I'm re-writting the entire codebase...I'm changing alot of how it's structured, etc...version 2.0 will be *much* better...not just because of Zend, but overall... :P Zend ain't that fantastic...
You appeared to ask "will I get more users if I am using Zend" to which my response was directed.
Hockey wrote:Really? Shoot...I thought SF offered a web based interface...
they have an interface for viewing the repository, just like Google does. But for uploading, I don't recall them having such a feature. It's been a while since I logged onto my account though.
Hockey wrote:Perhaps, but the TODO, Bug Tracker, Forums, etc...all nice features to have in one repository I think...
TODO, dislike; Bug tracker, dislike; forums, loathe. :?

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:53 pm
by alex.barylski
Admittedly the forums...could use some serious face lifts...I was thinking actually just use phpBB for that instead...depends if they allow that...but if I remember correctly AKAPJ said their pretty flexible...so we'll see :)

Cheers :)

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:19 pm
by feyd
Hockey wrote:You didn't read my latest one from last night then did you? :P
Frankly, I've gotten tired of the Zend threads. Yours or others, it's all the same to me.
Hockey wrote:p.s-You should (have/had) become a lawyer amigo...you'd make better money doing less work...and score browniey points with the girls...
Patent/copyright lawyer is a fallback plan in my education.. I don't care for the ladies the job stereotypically attracts however. I'm more into.. well that's not exactly forum material.
Hockey wrote:The day I can brag to women how I just installed a dual core processor which executes at x billion hertz/second and that it increased my programming efficiency by about 10% during compilation of SME desktop applications...and it makes her moan???
I've had those days.. seriously. They are really rare. So precious.
Hockey wrote:We all have our niches I guess...anything computers and aviation, kely because of interest, just clicks with me, me and science have always been good friends...me and English or anything of that nature...get along like water/electricity :P
Techically water and electricity work fine together, provided it's absolutely pure water. There is that electrolysis thing too.
Hockey wrote:Ick...so I have to download yet another SVN/CVS client...I can't just use FTP...I didn't even think of that...even as project manager I can't use FTP? That sucks...
Wee.
Hockey wrote:Although I did find an interesting CVS Windows explorer shell extension...which I could use...although I wanted to try SVN for a change :(
TortoiseSVN maybe? http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
Hockey wrote:
TODO, dislike; Bug tracker, dislike; forums, loathe
What? :? You do mean just Sourceforge.net's I hope...
You were talking about SourceForge's "features," and I was responding to your list.
Hockey wrote:Those are the handiest features of any tool like sourceforge...IMHO anyways...as they are helpful in both single and multiple developer teams...
They are useful tools, I'll agree. I just don't like SourceForge's variants on the theme. So I have to resort to hosting my own again.

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:32 pm
by alex.barylski
Patent/copyright lawyer is a fallback plan in my education.. I don't care for the ladies the job stereotypically attracts however. I'm more into.. well that's not exactly forum material.
ROFLMFAO...i'm sorry dude...but that last bit made me wet myself... :P :lol:

You strike me as such a formal guy...no offense if your totally a joker as I am, but you seem very straight edge and predictable...then you say something that IMHO suggests...well...something unpredictable...

In response to your first comment...giver' this forum needs another zealot for standards, legal mishmash, etc since I haven't seen (who I've personally coined the forum lawyer) iamsure in a good little while...

Your gonna have to learn to argue and debate more...I find your very to the point mostly...which is awesome when someone just wants answers...but won't help in court...

If you can't gloss details over to make them sound better or worse then they are...you won't make a good lawyer... :P I'm just kidding of course...everyone is different... ;)
I've had those days.. seriously. They are really rare. So precious.
What do you mean...days where you've actually found a woman that finds that you have to say as interesting...or days you where you come out of the closet and announce your nerdy-ness???

In all honesty...I'm much more open now about being a geek...as I don't play games...nor do I dress up in costumes and goto dungeons and drag queen conventions :lol:
Techically water and electricity work fine together, provided it's absolutely pure water. There is that electrolysis thing too.
Well that would depend on your definition of "fine togather" :P

I think the expression is hinting at the fact that 95%+ water on earth is not pure which makes it a better conductive...than say pure H2O...so if your in a pool full of water & chlorine, etc...and lightning strikes your pool...and your in the pool...your f***ed!!! :P
Wee.
Did you drink to much coffee or do you mean Oui? :P
You were talking about SourceForge's "features," and I was responding to your list.
Ok good...I just about dropped you from API bible...to stubborn mule :P
They are useful tools, I'll agree. I just don't like SourceForge's variants on the theme. So I have to resort to hosting my own again.
Yes I agree...they could be better, especially in design...but...I'll work with what I have available...I don't have the patience to dick around with anything myself at the moment...

Cheers :)

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:58 pm
by feyd
Hockey wrote:ROFLMFAO...i'm sorry dude...but that last bit made me wet myself... :P :lol:

You strike me as such a formal guy...no offense if your totally a joker as I am, but you seem very straight edge and predictable...then you say something that IMHO suggests...well...something unpredictable...
For many things, I will be predictable. However, I do have a few sides that are completely outside of nerdom. For instance, I love drifting. And while I don't personally have tattoos or piercings I do like them and admire people who have them. Not necessarily for the choices in tattoo or piercing per se, but in that they found an outlet for their feelings/art/what-have-you. One of the problems I have with getting tattoos or piercings is that it makes it a bit more difficult to get real jobs (versus pickups.) While tattooing has become quite popular, it still has a certain level of stigma amongst corporate cultures. While I dislike those settings, I do understand that there are times when I will need to work in those settings.
Hockey wrote:In response to your first comment...giver' this forum needs another zealot for standards, legal mishmash, etc since I haven't seen (who I've personally coined the forum lawyer) iamsure in a good little while...
He's chosen to move on from this sector of his life, sadly; it is possible we'll see him again though.
Hockey wrote:Your gonna have to learn to argue and debate more...I find your very to the point mostly...which is awesome when someone just wants answers...but won't help in court...
He's far more educated and interested in debating. I really don't care for debate myself, despite me being in most of the debates that happen here.
Hockey wrote:If you can't gloss details over to make them sound better or worse then they are...you won't make a good lawyer... :P I'm just kidding of course...everyone is different... ;)
I choose not to gloss over the details. It's all about the details to me.
Hockey wrote:What do you mean...days where you've actually found a woman that finds that you have to say as interesting...or days you where you come out of the closet and announce your nerdy-ness???

In all honesty...I'm much more open now about being a geek...as I don't play games...nor do I dress up in costumes and goto dungeons and drag queen conventions :lol:
I was referring to having a lady swoon to a statement of "I just installed a dual-core such'n'such."
Hockey wrote:Did you drink to much coffee or do you mean Oui? :P
Neither. I was referring to the sound. As in "it's a fun ride! WEEEEEEEEE!"
Hockey wrote:Ok good...I just about dropped you from API bible...to stubborn mule :P
Hmm, API bible. Okay. :D
Hockey wrote:Yes I agree...they could be better, especially in design...but...I'll work with what I have available...I don't have the patience to dick around with anything myself at the moment...
That's where I diverge from the "standard" programmer, I guess. I have lots of patience. I rarely take the short cut. Hell, I rarely even copy and paste except when needing to type something many many times in fairly rapid succession.

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:23 pm
by alex.barylski
For instance, I love drifting.
Looks like it could be a hoot...
piercings I do like them and admire people who have them
Nice...bow down amigo...I've had *everything* peirced :P I'm kidding about the bow down part...but not about the peircing part...I have to this day only 2 earings...and a maple leaf tattoo on my neck...yes it hurt for anyone about to ask.. :P
While tattooing has become quite popular, it still has a certain level of stigma amongst corporate cultures.
I know all to well...currently I have mohawk...and a tattoo on my neck for life (as already stated) but it only takes people a few minutes to see I'm all business...

I find it helps me stick in peoples mind...for better or worse I haven't determined yet :P
He's chosen to move on from this sector of his life, sadly; it is possible we'll see him again though
Really...wow..crazy...I figured most people on here were nerds for life...like you, I've been at this from an early age...and I see no end in sight...only shifting gears occasionally...I see myself at 90 contemplating best practices, designs, etc... :P
Neither. I was referring to the sound. As in "it's a fun ride! WEEEEEEEEE!"
LOL thats what I meant...not wee as in...I drank to much coffee I have to wee...but I drank to much coffee or happy pills...Weeeeeeee... :P
Hmm, API bible. Okay
It's true...I've basically classified all regulars in categories...ever changing of course...but I see the unique talents in everyone on here and contact you all accordingly as I find fit... :P

It's like having my own team of software developers, but for free...now if I could just get you all to work togather on the same project... *twidles fingers* Innnnnnteresting... :twisted:

So I went Bill Gates there for a moment :)
That's where I diverge from the "standard" programmer, I guess. I have lots of patience. I rarely take the short cut. Hell, I rarely even copy and paste except when needing to type something many many times in fairly rapid succession
I"m not sure I'm kean on being classified as someone who takes "short cuts" as that implies poorer quality, but lazy...hell yea...thats what intrigues me about computers...and robots...

If I could I would completely replace every human part of me for a bionic equivelant...except my brain...I'd keep that :P

I'm always looking for shortcuts...of faster ways of doing things...column selection, source folding, auto-tab indent, quick keys, hot keys...call me lazy...but I find it really increases my productivity...and yes copy paste is second nature to me...I can't stand writing code more than once...or anything I don't have to more than once...

Yup...your a weirdo ;)

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:06 pm
by hydroxide
Hockey
<desultory>
Just out of curiosity, are you a native speaker of english? I don't mean this to insulting; just wondering.
</desultory>

Re: Googl or sourceforge

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:09 pm
by feyd
hydroxide wrote:<desultory>
Just out of curiosity, are you a native speaker of english? I don't mean this to insulting; just wondering.
</desultory>
He's in/from Canada. The answer could be yes and no all at once. :)

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:10 pm
by hydroxide
For instance, I love drifting.
240-sr20-coilover fanboy? :P

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:13 pm
by Luke
jeeeeeze... let's have some long posts shall we?

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:19 pm
by feyd
hydroxide wrote:240-sr20-coilover fanboy? :P
While 240's are nice, my current cars of choice are Toyota Supra TT, Lexus IS300 or Lexus IS350. However, I would certainly not refuse a R34/R35. SR20's are excellent engines.

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:26 pm
by hydroxide
feyd wrote:
hydroxide wrote:240-sr20-coilover fanboy? :P
While 240's are nice, my current cars of choice are Toyota Supra TT, Lexus IS300 or Lexus IS350. However, I would certainly not refuse a R34/R35. SR20's are excellent engines.
What do you drift in? Do you own all of these? O_O
Toyota Supra TT, Lexus IS300 or Lexus IS350
I'd kill for an r34... but I guess that notion belongs in the Job Hunt section.