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the one thing PHP has over other languages
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:52 pm
by alvinphp
I just want to say...
PHP might not be as object oriented as Ruby, as scalable as Java, or as complete as .NET, but it has the best communities on the web making it one of the easiest languages to learn because of all the help that goes well beyond just syntax. It is because of this that PHP will be around for a long time.
Re: the one thing PHP has over other languages
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:53 pm
by Oren
alvinphp wrote:or as complete as .NET
What does that mean?
Re: the one thing PHP has over other languages
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:05 pm
by alvinphp
Oren wrote:alvinphp wrote:or as complete as .NET
What does that mean?
The all inclusive integrated .net framework/library/namespaces. With PHP you need to use community add ons like Pear or cakePHP to get some of the framework functionality that .NET has built in.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:16 pm
by Luke
PHP's manual/website alone make it an awesome language. PHP's documentation is hands-down the best I've ever seen.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:52 pm
by alex.barylski
There really is no one language or technology better than the next, particularly when you compare apples to oranges like you have...
ASP.NET is dedicated for Windows platforms and being a M$ product has tons of support, commercial and free (maybe more than PHP) it also boasts a powerful IDE and and tight intgration with a framework...
ASP is ideal for people who just want things to work and aren't afraid to be confined into what M$ says is good practice...
ASP.NET uses a page controller design, which is fine, but in PHP I think the general census is that front controller is prefered, at least it is with me personally. You have to hack quite a bit before you can do this in ASP. I am not sure if ISS has anything like mod_rewrite, but if it doesn't you'd be hard pressed getting SEO web pages from a front controller implementation.
PHP is open source and in the spirit of open-ness it has 1,000 different ways to skin a cat...some methods much better than others...docs are poor quality, when compared to MSDN anyways and there really is no defacto standard to anything in PHP not even IDE's. Yes Eclipse is popular (appreantly) but I don't use it...however under ASP.NET I gaurantee 99% will use the Visual Studio, etc...
The open-ness is both a good thing and a bad as too many options can lead to difficult choices...what I am experiencing as we speak in selecting a distro...Ubuntu, Knoppix, RH, Gentoo and SuSE I have tried each...and based on many factors I have decided to favour one over the other...
The point is...each tool does a job and some tools do a better job at one task than others, but a professional knows what tool to use when it's best used...he does not allow zeal to influence his decision.
PHP is great and for most of what I do...it's a better choice than ASP.NET...but if you needed to interact with Windows proprietary components, such as TAPI...you'd be hardpressed getting something like that to work under Linux I think...at least a lot more difficult than say under Windows...
Cheers

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:56 am
by MrPotatoes
thank you Hocky
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:PHP's manual/website alone make it an awesome language. PHP's documentation is hands-down the best I've ever seen.
have you even seen MSDN? that is hands down the best documentation. on top of that it's got DVD's upon DVD's of documentation, user submitted code and the likes. unless you've seen the monthly MSDN subscription service (tens of DVD's of MSDN and such) you don't even know lol. it's sick.
that is one of the reasons that MS isn't going anywhere for a long time. thier support for business is phenominal
i still think PHP could have alot added to it tho. i love it and its the language that i've been using for close to a year now but it's definatly not the best or the most complete but man is it easy to learn and fun to use. i think of it as a more complex HTML or a much simpler C with no debugger
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:16 am
by alvinphp
Hockey wrote:ASP is ideal for people who just want things to work and aren't afraid to be confined into what M$ says is good practice...
ASP.NET uses a page controller design, which is fine, but in PHP I think the general census is that front controller is prefered, at least it is with me personally. You have to hack quite a bit before you can do this in ASP.
MS does not force you to do any specific practice. They actually push you to use a variety of different patterns. And you do not need to do any hacking to use a front controller patterns with .NET as I did it all the time. I am curious to know, how much working experience do you have in ASP.NET?
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:56 am
by Luke
MrPotatoes wrote:have you even seen MSDN? that is hands down the best documentation. on top of that it's got DVD's upon DVD's of documentation, user submitted code and the likes. unless you've seen the monthly MSDN subscription service (tens of DVD's of MSDN and such) you don't even know lol. it's sick.
I forgot to add an important clause to my statement...
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:PHP's manual/website alone make it an awesome language. PHP's documentation is hands-down the best free documentation I've ever seen.
Sorry bout that.

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:20 am
by MrPotatoes
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:MrPotatoes wrote:have you even seen MSDN? that is hands down the best documentation. on top of that it's got DVD's upon DVD's of documentation, user submitted code and the likes. unless you've seen the monthly MSDN subscription service (tens of DVD's of MSDN and such) you don't even know lol. it's sick.
I forgot to add an important clause to my statement...
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:PHP's manual/website alone make it an awesome language. PHP's documentation is hands-down the best free documentation I've ever seen.
Sorry bout that.

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx
:p
although i will say that thier docs are 'free' and EXTREMELY useful in learning to do C and then thier languages the subscriptions are expensive as all dookie. i mean, those things are 2K a month if i remember it correctly. my dad had a subscription to it for his crew
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:23 am
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
We forgive you. You can do penance and say PHP IS COOL several hundred times...

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:32 am
by MrPotatoes
a quick while loop can take care of that
*pops collar*
Re: the one thing PHP has over other languages
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:37 am
by AKA Panama Jack
Oren wrote:alvinphp wrote:or as complete as .NET
What does that mean?
It means it has the built-in ability to die for absolutely no reason what-so-ever.

It's a Microsoft Feature.
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:35 pm
by alex.barylski
alvinphp wrote:Hockey wrote:ASP is ideal for people who just want things to work and aren't afraid to be confined into what M$ says is good practice...
ASP.NET uses a page controller design, which is fine, but in PHP I think the general census is that front controller is prefered, at least it is with me personally. You have to hack quite a bit before you can do this in ASP.
MS does not force you to do any specific practice. They actually push you to use a variety of different patterns. And you do not need to do any hacking to use a front controller patterns with .NET as I did it all the time. I am curious to know, how much working experience do you have in ASP.NET?
Hmmmm you got me there...
I have zero experience with ASP.NET just a year or so of classic ASP when it first came out
Howevere I am sure I read in the MSDN documents that ASP.NET modelled after the page controller pattern and it's specifically stated it was difficult and requiring significant changes in order to implement the front controller...
I'll dig that up and show you...unless I dreamed/dreamt about it...
p.s-I never said they "forced" you into any best practice, but it's typical M$ to at least suggest you follow their lead....it's what makes them so successful...and an industry leader...
cheers
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:52 am
by Ree
Hockey wrote:Howevere I am sure I read in the MSDN documents that ASP.NET modelled after the page controller pattern and it's specifically stated it was difficult and requiring significant changes in order to implement the front controller...
Yes, the design is based on page controllers, but there's no problem using a front controller either. I think you'll even find an example of implementation on MSDN in MS Patterns.
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:38 am
by MrPotatoes
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:PHP's manual/website alone make it an awesome language. PHP's documentation is hands-down the best free documentation I've ever seen.
you know what? i just wanted to say one more thing about this cuz i thought of it on the drive to work. PHP Manual is the best free manual and documentation to date. there is no other open source manual that even compares and most open source suffers from the no documentation problems