How to convince my boss that MySQL/PHP are better than EXCEL

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emmbec
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How to convince my boss that MySQL/PHP are better than EXCEL

Post by emmbec »

Hello everyone, i was hoping you could give me some ideas on how to convince my boss that making a web based application using PHP and MySQL is better than his excel macros. We have a problem at the company, we have employee information everywere, in excel files, in access databases, in some MySQL databases, etc, and when someone is trying to get some specific employee information its a problem because there is not a single place to check this information.

I was proposing making a php based application using MySQL to have this unique database, and all other applications that we have (Oh yes, we have like 7 different apps, webbased, using access as DB to store more user information) make them connect to this unique database to have employee information in the same place.

He in the other hand, was proposing making different excel files, and with an excel Macro, syncronize those files to have the same information, and the he told me that to have all of our applications with the same user information, I could "MAKE" a special "DRIVER" to connect to his excel files. It really was a mess what he was proposing, and I'm not very familiar with excel but I'm sure that excel was not meant for that purpose.

My boss doesn't know ANYTHING about MySQL or the term DATABASE whatsoever and I think he is afraid of change. He is like 40, and he has used excel and access all his life, I think that is one reason why he is resisting to change, but I just can't make him understand that my proposal is better. I already tried explaining him some things, but I want to know what YOU (More experienced with MySQL and PHP than myself) think about it, and what could you tell that old guy to make him change his mind.

I hope to have your thoughts soon.


Thank you very much!
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Ollie Saunders
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Post by Ollie Saunders »

It's a tricky one. If you consider yourself a good developer (as opposed to a programmer alone) you can start doing some analysis of the problem (what functionality you require), use case models, user interface designs and put together some kind of a presentation. With all that you can make a really strong case, without it you are selling speculation.

Also you should try and define some acceptance tests. Actually make quantifiable claims such as "users that are new to the application will be able to use it within an hour after a 20 minute demonstration" or "searching for a record with x condition can be easily achieved within 10 seconds of accessing the application". Beyond that you could do some cost benefit analysis and see if new software will actually have financial benefits.

Make sure you consider all aspect of the current system. There are things that excel does very well and he may expect your application to do too. For instance you can easily create graphs and scenarios in excel but in PHP you have to go about coding specific functionality to do that kind of thing. Also consider backup and security issues; the importance and strategies regarding these are likely to change dramatically in comparison with excel files.
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Jenk
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Post by Jenk »

jotting up a simple pro's/con's list for both situations is often enough for me.. the list will be impartial and objective, of course.

You've already listed a fistful of Excel con's in that there post of yours.

Failing that, calling him a noob works.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

I've had bosses like that... I was going to post a thread I started that was very similar to this, but once I found it, I read my posts and realized I used to be a freaking @ss on these forums 8O :oops:
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Post by aaronhall »

Platform independence, for one. It seems, too, that MySQL would offer a hell of a lot more flexibility in terms of data presentation and reports generation. Excel was never meant to be a multi-user database (as far as I know). Maybe use Access, but certainly not Excel.

Forgot one: security (!)
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Re: How to convince my boss that MySQL/PHP are better than E

Post by timvw »

emmbec wrote:Hello everyone, i was hoping you could give me some ideas on how to convince my boss that making a web based application using PHP and MySQL is better than his excel macros. We have a problem at the company, we have employee information everywere, in excel files, in access databases, in some MySQL databases, etc, and when someone is trying to get some specific employee information its a problem because there is not a single place to check this information.
So the real problem is one central access path for the information. (I'm not saying that all the data itself should be centralized, only the 'access to').
emmbec wrote: He in the other hand, was proposing making different excel files, and with an excel Macro, syncronize those files to have the same information, and the he told me that to have all of our applications with the same user information, I could "MAKE" a special "DRIVER" to connect to his excel files. It really was a mess what he was proposing, and I'm not very familiar with excel but I'm sure that excel was not meant for that purpose.
Special driver? Afaik there are ODBC drivers for excel, access and mysql...
emmbec wrote: My boss doesn't know ANYTHING about MySQL or the term DATABASE whatsoever and I think he is afraid of change. He is like 40, and he has used excel and access all his life, I think that is one reason why he is resisting to change, but I just can't make him understand that my proposal is better. I already tried explaining him some things, but I want to know what YOU (More experienced with MySQL and PHP than myself) think about it, and what could you tell that old guy to make him change his mind.
Simply install the ODBC-MySQL driver on his pc, setup a connection to the database, and show him that he can still use excel (although it's using a different datasource).
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Maugrim_The_Reaper
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Post by Maugrim_The_Reaper »

It is kind of tricky in that Excel has widespread usage in business, is therefore generally well known by incoming employees, and does tend to get used in inappropriate situations. The most useful analysis is, as someone noted, a simple pro/con list. A demonstration of MySQL with a simple PHP mockup that can also interface with Access would be useful - something with teeth that shows possibilities and ease of use.

You should consider whether the aim is to centralise the employee data or centralise the interface to the distributed data. Excel generation in either case will likely be needed - if nothing else whoever does the payroll and handles accounting will kill you otherwise ;).
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Post by RobertGonzalez »

Simply explain to him that each datatype has it's place. Excel is a spreadsheet, and as such has wide application value in financials and reporting. Similar to Word, which makes for a useful document application.

A database is a database, not a spreadsheet or anything else. It holds data. In and of itself, it is not really useful unless the data you want to fetch has meaning at the command line. However, few data holds meaning in that context. In fact, the true power of the database lies in its relationship capabilities and the ability it has to provide data to applications which can then use that data to perform a task with it. In one place. No duplication of work, no excess paper, all in all a cost savings to the company not just in money but in time and frustration as well.
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Post by Chris Corbyn »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I've had bosses like that... I was going to post a thread I started that was very similar to this, but once I found it, I read my posts and realized I used to be a freaking @ss on these forums 8O :oops:
:lol:
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RobertGonzalez
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Post by RobertGonzalez »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I read my posts and realized I used to be a freaking @ss on these forums 8O :oops:
Used to be? :wink:
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TheMoose
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Post by TheMoose »

I didn't know we had a new programmer at my company! :P Sounds exactly like my boss sometimes.

All jokes aside, one of the most successful methods I've encountered is to provide a cost analysis of using each. Give him estimated costs for using each. Include estimated cost of man hours involved in creating the solution, and the estimated cost of the end user's man hours of having to use each solution. I think in the end you'll realize that the most cost effective solution in the long run is definitely MySQL. Show that the upfront cost of the MySQL solution is going to be larger because it will take more time than the Excel solution (db setup, coding, and data transformation), but that the overall maintenance cost is lower (and that he'll save money by the fact that end-user's won't take nearly as long to find the information they want, thus ability to spend more time making money). The Excel solution is a low cost solution upfront, but it has high maintenance cost, and requires more time in finding information to the end-user (say on average a person spends 1 hour per day looking up information, estimate their hourly wage and throw that into the cost, now do it for each user).

Cost analysis sheets are the best way to show someone that time is money, and the higher ups always like to see that you took the time to try and help them save some money.
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Christopher
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Post by Christopher »

The problem is not technology ... it's human nature. You are asking your boss to change a system from one he can understand and fix, to one that he does not understand and cannot fix. Education is the key to improving human nature.

Perhaps if you showed him how LAMP works, code up some demos that show how the system will make him looks good, decrease his workload, and increase his ability to track who is doing what. I'd even teach him some PHP and MySQL basics so he can see the light. He's going to be a PITA no matter what you do ... you might as well get him to be pro-PHP.
(#10850)
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daedalus__
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Post by daedalus__ »

I have the same problem at this company. Information is littered across a very, very hard to follow and cluttered directory structure that is strewn across five hard drives on a file server. We use a CRM called Navision to store information about our rentals, sales, and employees, among other things, while there is secondary and tertiary information about these things stuffed into access databases and excel spreadsheets.

If one was to store all this wonderful information in one (or two in my case since Navision uses it's own "special" (e.g. crappy) database engine and refuses to run on anything else except for MS SQL server (gg microsoft)) database, using ODBC my co-workers and bosses could use excel, access, or whatever program they wanted to use the data as long as that program supports ODBC, right?
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I've had bosses like that... I was going to post a thread I started that was very similar to this, but once I found it, I read my posts and realized I used to be a freaking @ss on these forums 8O :oops:
I loved my Ninja Space Goat.
Jenk wrote:Failing that, calling him a noob works.
I've tried it. :/
hahahaha

P.S.

Should this thread move to Enterprise?
timvw
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Post by timvw »

TheMoose wrote:and that he'll save money by the fact that end-user's won't take nearly as long to find the information they want, thus ability to spend more time making money
- And exactly what makes you believe that a webapplication will deliver the reduced look-up time?



Personally i'd tackle this problem in multiple phases:

- migrate the data to a database.. (assuming that they technoligy is used well and delivers us advantages as: minimal data redundancy, data consistency, data integration, data sharing, enforcement of standards, data independence, reduced maintenance).
- Once this has been done i'd analyse if it makes sense to develop a better ui...
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Ollie Saunders
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Post by Ollie Saunders »

arborint wrote:Perhaps if you showed him how LAMP works, code up some demos that show how the system will make him looks good, decrease his workload, and increase his ability to track who is doing what.
Good Idea! :D
I'd even teach him some PHP and MySQL basics so he can see the light. He's going to be a PITA no matter what you do ... you might as well get him to be pro-PHP.
Bad Idea! :(
That will probably scare him off. Unless he has expressed some interest in programming or computers at some point which I think is unlikely.
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