Page 1 of 2

Vista advice

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:33 am
by matthijs
Ok, the phone calls of relatives and friends start coming in these days, as I am supposed to be the "computer expert". The questions they ask: I need a new pc, should I buy a new computer with Vista? And what specs should that pc have? or should I buy a pc with XP while it's still possible?

The recommended minimum setup is 512Mb memory and 800+ hz processor, but do people know if that's really sufficient? I know that on my older pc's (about 2 yrs old) even for XP 512Mb is not much. Once you have a few programs opened (Word, browser, email, etc) it gets slower. Also after using the pc for half a year it always gets slower. Upgrading those pc's to 1,5 - 2 Gb memory made a huge difference. And I'm not talking about doing heavy graphic work here.

For myself I know I will only buy Vista when I really really have to for testing purposes. I am a very happy Mac user and otherwise I would install linux. But for those non-tech friends and family linux is no an option. And Mac is neither an option because they have software lying around, like an old Flight simulator or chess game, which is Microsoft only, of course .... (I'm really getting sick of that monopoly, but let's not get into that discussion now...)

So what do you people think?
- Is vista worth it for your average non-tech user (email, surf, word process)
- which hardware config should you go for?
- or should I just recommend a lower budget XP box?

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:20 am
by timvw
I've installed Vista last month.. But even if i don't consider the programs that don't run under Vista i don't see a reason to use it...

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:57 am
by Jenk
A friend of mine has his "RTM" copy (what ever RTM stands for.. he is the same guy who supports MS helpdesk) and this is a screenshot of the taskmanager when running at idle..

Image

nearly 650mb mem-usage..

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:00 am
by Skittlewidth
Am I mistaken in thinking I heard Microsoft say they would offer discounts on upgrading to Vista if a computer was bought with XP over the christmas period? I don't know if that applies to any PC bought with XP since Vista was released. Not that you want to have to provide technical support for an operating system upgrade for all those friends and relatives!

Personally I won't be investing in Vista until after the release of service pack 2 :wink: , and besides I will have to buy a whole new PC to run it on.

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:00 am
by aaronhall
RTM = Release to Manufacturing

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:43 am
by matthijs
Thanks for the replies so far guys. Seems like my suspicions about the memory use were true.

The thing is also that non-tech people go to a shop and are being sold cheap pc's (meaning cheap parts) which barely run even when they only email and surf a little. (of course sometimes that has also something to do with the nasty spyware being installed since they've used it)
It all looks very new and slick and has the latest software on it and a nice tft screen and all, but in fact it doesn't run any faster then my Pentium III did with windows 98 a few years ago..
nearly 650mb mem-usage..
Ok, so 512Mb is definately not too much ..

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:08 am
by Kieran Huggins
See if you can find a copy of Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs - it's XP SP2, minus the bloat, plus better memory management. I use it on my laptop. It uses the same license (and key) you already use.

I've tried Vista... not nearly impressed enough to upgrade. Maybe I'll switch to OS X...

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:13 am
by RobertGonzalez
Given MS's penchant for releasing bug filled software just so they can get to market, I would not be that eager to move to Vista just yet.

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:14 am
by feyd
Kieran Huggins wrote:Maybe I'll switch to OS X...
Now you're talkin'

Vista can kiss my shiny, metal...

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:15 am
by Luke
... boy I love ubuntu. :-D

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:40 am
by matthijs
feyd wrote:
Kieran Huggins wrote:Maybe I'll switch to OS X...
Now you're talkin'

Vista can kiss my shiny, metal...
The Ninja Space Goat wrote:... boy I love ubuntu. Very Happy
Ha, I have a bad memory and a tendency to double post (by accident) but this time I'm sure I've heard this before :)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:44 am
by volka
And beryl can easily drain my notebook's battery as fast as aero ;)

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:15 am
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
Unless you're planning to foist a high powered gaming rig on your relatives, I'd say XP is fine. It's going to be supported past 2010 at least since I can't see many companies making a fast switch to Vista, nor any IT department being capable of making an upgrade case any day soon. Besides the extra cost of both the OS and the cost of the added requirements (XP in comparison can run on as little as 256MB slowly but "good enough" for typical use), there's third party driver support to watch out for.

I haven't personally counted, but as of last week I still had a lot of Vista beta drivers sitting around my hard drive for reference. One thing I really dislike (being a gamer) is that the current Creative SB sound cards on Vista will not have EAX support, and likely have Dolby/DTS issues. Here's what the current (28 December) X-Fi Vista beta driver README states:
Known issues:
* This driver does not support the following:
o Decoding of Dolby® Digital and DTS™ signals
o DVD-Audio
o DirectSound®-based EAX games
o 6.1 speaker mode.
* SPDIF passthrough is supported on Vista 32-bit only.
* Applications from the original Sound Blaster X-Fi CD will not work with this download.
I'm almost afraid to look for a dial-up modem driver for Vista...

Re: Vista advice

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:55 am
by AKA Panama Jack
matthijs wrote:Ok, the phone calls of relatives and friends start coming in these days, as I am supposed to be the "computer expert". The questions they ask: I need a new pc, should I buy a new computer with Vista? And what specs should that pc have? or should I buy a pc with XP while it's still possible?

The recommended minimum setup is 512Mb memory and 800+ hz processor, but do people know if that's really sufficient?
Avoid Vista like the Black Plague and stick with XP.

Vista is a huge resource hog and with only an 800mhz processor it will be constantly dogging no matter how much memory you have installed. With only 512meg get ready to watch your drive light running all of the time as the swap file is constantly accessed. That will also cause the computer to be laggy and slow.

One of the reasons they are offering cheap upgrades to Vista for XP owners is because there is NOTHING in Vista that the vast majority of XP users need. They are trying to make up a bunch of nonsense reasons. People who know a little about computers will see through them but people who don't know that much about computers will probably fall for their nonsense.

There is one thing that will probably get some computer literate people to buy Vista. DirectX 10. DirectX 10 is only going to be available for Vista. It offers a number of new enhancements for game producers and the new video cards that are coming out. Microsoft has said they can't create DX10 for XP because it uses things in Vista and that is total BS. They are using DX10 as a marketing wedge to force at least the large gaming population to upgrade. If you want the latest and greatest looking graphics for your 3D games you will have to buy Vista. I would find it very funny if some enterprising programmer found a way to hack DX10 so it would work on XP. :)

Stay away from Vista at all costs because there are many other bad things about it like how it keeps track of your web surfing, installed software and a bunch of other things and reports it back to MS. Then there is the hardware issue... If you use a non-MS authorized driver Vista can completely shut down your computer and not allow you to use it. This information is reported to MS as well. Basically MS will be able to control what drivers and other support software is installed. If it isn't in their white list they can deny you access to your computer. Some security companies have reported that it would be easy to create a Vista only virus that would trigger this shutdown causing hundreds of thousands of computer to go dark. Image what that would do for many businesses.

Vista is so flawed it never should have been released. They basically created Big Brother in the form of an Operating System.

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:00 pm
by nickvd
We have a dual core system (3ghz iirc) with 1gb of ram and it's very sluggish and crashes more than it should...

I won't be upgrading for at least a year or two after release (or after the first service pack gets released and tested for a year or more)

By the time that comes around, I'm hoping that I can scrape up enough cash to "Make The Switch" (to mac)