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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:29 pm
by qartis
EDIT>>
Have a look at :
Quanta Plus : http://quanta.sourceforge.net/

It will run under Gnome 2.2 and KDE 3x
<<END
Whoa, Quanta is remarkably great! Cheers mate :)

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:32 pm
by Heavy
Yes, Quanta is great. It is among the best editors I have ever seen. The only reason I don't use it is the fact that most people browse the web with Internet Explorer... Which forces me to run windows on my machine and there we go. :cry:

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:19 pm
by patrikG
Unless you're doing very advanced client-side scripting: what runs on Mozilla runs on IE. So, you could be a happy Linux-bunny again, if you wanted to :)

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:49 am
by Heavy
patrikG wrote:Unless you're doing very advanced client-side scripting: what runs on Mozilla runs on IE.
Well... My excperience is that out of 100% client side development, 75% goes into getting all the kinds of IEs to work as expected.
Don't we all long for when standards are considered as standards among those developing web-clients?

Client side development is the worst part of it all...
I'll tell you where it gets hardest:
* window resizing
* event fetching - which by the way is less messy in IE.
* downloding files sent from php. Welcome to hell. Different headers for different IEs. SSL screws it up. Even more different sets of headers.
* styles

So I Use Zend Studio, because it runs both under Linux and windows. And it is good too. It is so far the least buggy editor from the multi platform world I've used.

Tried PHPedit recently. The development version has so many (basic) bugs that it is a miracle it is released with those bugs still present.
the application always crashes when the application is shut down.
keyboard shortcuts stop working after a while. When that has happened, there is also no way of shutting down the editor other thanby killing it from process control in windows.
I might file a bug report about these things. If I am the only one experiencing it (suuuuure lad!), they may never get fixed.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:57 am
by patrikG
Heavy wrote: I'll tell you where it gets hardest:
* window resizing
* event fetching - which by the way is less messy in IE.
* downloding files sent from php. Welcome to hell. Different headers for different IEs. SSL screws it up. Even more different sets of headers.
* styles
True. My argument was more with you saying "I have to work under windows because of IE". I would disagree with that - a small, but subtle difference: I don't have to develop client-side stuff under Windows because of IE, but because it's the most widely used desktop-OS. That doesn't necessarily mean Windows IE only, but Operah etc. as well, with Mozilla/Firebird being the notable, and laudable exception.

IE's DOM was great when it first came out, compared to the extremely annoying and buggy Netscape 4+ DOM. And most issues still arise from the difference in DOMs, be it Opera, Mozilla, IE (win), IE(mac), etc.

Three of your four reasons are DOM-related, i.e. client-side issues, so I don't see the necessity to code PHP under Windows, but when it comes to CSS, HTML, Javascript etc. - yup, you're right, if you really need the more advanced stuff. I tend to avoid it if possible and try to keep the client-side as simple and basic as possible.

Windows resizing has always been a pain to do cross-browser - it's not necessarily an IE-feature. Every browser has different window-dimensions. If Konqueror was the dominant browser, a similar situation would arise.
What I find much more frustrating is how different every browser handles (if at all) the relationship between parent- and child-windows and especially forms. (Hello DOM)

Events - that's indeed the crux. Just any kind of simple keyboard-event requires adapting to almost every browser individually. Bring Opera and (behold) Netscape 4+ into it and you'll be tearing your hair out. (Hello DOM)

Header-Problems - there are common fixes and work-arounds for IE 5.5 SP1 buggy handling of HTTP. For downloading issues include 'header("Cache-control: private");' (there is a very useful post about this in the user-notes to the header()-funtion in the php-manual) - which I found, works in IE 5.5 and 6.

CSS - welcome to hell, indeed, if you really want to implement more advanced features. I tend to steer clear of them, although it would be beautiful if every browser adhered to W3-standards. (Hello DOM)

There is a very interesting article on evolt.org about recent developments in the browser-market. Aparently the next version of IE will be integrated into the next version of Windows that you can only get IE7 with Windows itself. No more standalone-application. Whether that's a good or bad thing remains to be seen.

P.S.: PHPEdit - I totally agree: it has the feel of a beta-release, not a RC. Regarding the bug you describe (PHPEdit crashing every time you shut it down), if I remember correctly they say in the FAQ that you'll have to download some .dll from Microsoft, which will sort that.

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:20 am
by Heavy
patrikG wrote:Three of your four reasons are DOM-related, i.e. client-side issues, so I don't see the necessity to code PHP under Windows
The reason I said this is that if you don't have either multiple OS's installed or multiple development computers running different OS's or VMWare installed, you need to run Windows to test IE. Yes, the coding can of course be carried out on ANY system. My argument is convenience. To test things in IE I don't want to have to switch system just for that.
On the other hand. There are many versions of IE out there. When one wants to test all of them, one has got to have access to different windows installations to be able to, since IE can't be installed with several versions running in a single windows environment. (...I think, correct me if I'm wrong)
patrikG wrote:if I remember correctly they say in the FAQ that you'll have to download some .dll from Microsoft, which will sort that.
Ummm... I have Windows Update do such things for me. I run Windows 2000, a not too old system I guess... Strange thing to have an operating system update because of a buggy text editor.

huh??? I hear the water is running.. Gotta go check..
Oops... Just let 75 litres of 90 degree Celcius water run down right into the drain... Hmm... listening to music at the computer has it's drawbacks. Yesterday, I accidently left one heater on the stove on for two hours after the rice was finished. During that time, I had also had a nap for an hour. Stupid! Dangerous!

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:30 am
by qartis
Regarding the IE versions and their own little obscure ways of taking file downloads, I think IE 5.5 and 6[SP1] are the two main versions. The error in 5.5 with the content-type: atachment was resolved in 6 IIRC, so it seems like you should only ever really need to design for IE 5.5/6, Opera, NS4, NS7, Mozilla (1.2.1 up), maybe Konqueror if you've got some free time, and lynx if you want to be nice to old unix gurus. Most of my stuff (with javascript/resizing/mouseovers/heavy css) has worked on IE, though often the font size ratios are quite a bit off. Konqueror is kind of a pain, in that nobody can quite figure out what standard it's trying to emulate, though the userbase isn't high enough to worry about.

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:13 am
by anjo
:idea: You guys should really try ultaedit 32:

http://www.ultraedit.com

it supports just about every programming language available... more than 400 languages supported 8O and can be downloaded for free..

..amongst allot of functions it has autocompletion for java 1.4 and php4 ... save directly to ftp .. it's notepad evolved... I guess it's the best editor I've worked with so far..

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:38 am
by evilmonkey
My favourite is Zend Studio. I love the debugger and the the fact that the F1 key takes you to the PHP manual. Before, I was using DreamWeaver, that has the best sytax highlighting. I've also used EditPlus, but compared to Dreamweaver and Zend, it just doesn't add up.

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:11 am
by stuart
My favourites under a windows environment are:

Zend Studio and PHP Edit, but Nusphere PHPed have just released a new version so that might be worth looking at (last version was promising).

More details on editors can be found at: PHP-Editors.com
and: Keith's PHP Editors

My favorit PHP-Editor

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:02 pm
by Derfel Cadarn
My PHP and MySQL-editor is the same as my HTML-editor: Arachniphilia. It's written in java, uses great tag-coloring ans is extremely flexible: I've made my own macro's for generating PHP and MySQL-tags.
And, since I've got a 'dual' system, I've installed in both the Win and the Linux-environment. In both environments, Arachnophilia looks and works exactly the same, of course.

Next I've made an Apache-server (with PHP and MySQL) in both environments, so I can code on my PC and, after succesfully testing it, upload the whole shebang!!

Check out at: http://www.arachnoid.com , it's free (Careware)!

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Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:11 pm
by Slippy
I've used HTMLKit for a number of years now, and have found it particularly useful if you deal with a number of different languages (ie. ASP, PHP, Java etc)

http://www.chami.com/html-kit/

There are also various add-ins available, supporting a huge amount of languages
Dito - HTMLKiT is Boss

...

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:29 pm
by kettle_drum
I really like TextPad - simple and easy to use.

Arisesoft Winsyntax

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:30 pm
by sudip
I use Arisesoft Winsyntax which I think is the best for me.

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:43 am
by Heavy
Today I downloded:

Zend Development Environment
3.0(BETA)

I suggest everyone gives it a try. It is just a wonderful environment. And nowadays it even checks for proper syntax while you code.
I can't believe people who say that Notepad or whatever minimalist editor is enough.
I think you should use Zend Studio just because Zend is the company behind PHP. Nevertheless, This IDE really is really good.
It is at the time of writing in beta status. test it you too!