Page 1 of 3

I just want to say thanks...

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:36 am
by m3mn0n
...to PHPDN members past and present. When I first got started with PHP and registered here (first going as Oromian, then Sami for the majority of my time here) this forum was a giant help and I'm glad I was able to (since early 2003) be a moderator here and help others in the same way.

Sadly, I'm no longer going to be visiting here. Rather than describing why, I'll simply quote my last post from the Moderator forum. It should explain why.

Bye. :(
m3mn0n wrote:
Everah wrote:
m3mn0n wrote:I couldn't disagree with that more. Linux, Ajax, mod_rewrite, CSS, and etc discussion might not be PHP in and of itself, but it's not right to suggest it's not PHP related.
That is like saying that I need to know PHP in order to use PHP in order to use Linux, Ajax, mod_rewrite and CSS. That is simply not the case.
That's absurd & not what I'm saying at all. Simply put, those are related technologies and in order to facilitate PHP developers it's necessesary to talk about and mention them and how they relate to PHP and problems that arise with them in relation to PHP development. And in doing so it doesn't make us any less of a community that revolves around PHP, if anything it makes us a better PHP community because we do have forums and coverage for those related things.

And you may simply be referring to another definition of the word "related." I'm not suggesting those things are in fact related in terms of functionality or similarity, I'm suggesting they're related in terms of usage in the same web development process.
Everah wrote:We have given web development the focus here. I agree with you 100% that a majority of our success is derived from from PHP assistance. But if you look at the numbers, Client Side and Databases receive quite a bit of traffic.
Of course web development is the focus, but specifically speaking it's been PHP web development that is and has always been the focus. And simply because our forums that centre around PHP related things have activity, doesn't make this any less of a PHP centred forum.

And if you looked into some of the older threads which talk about the goal of the PHPDN, you'll see it all surrounds the concept of advancing, promoting and supporting PHP web development. My signature has a quote from one of them.

I really never did believe I'd ever be required to convince people the PHPDN is and should be a PHP focused network/forum/community. And the PHPDN is called "The PHP Developer's Network" but I think this goes back to a lack of a solid identity, organization, and leadership. And as the only real organized body responsible for being leaders and establishing and promoting an identity within the community and around the web, it's deplorable that the selfish personal preference (which directly contradicts established goals) of a few in power are dictating actions (and in certain situations, inactions) in terms of moving away from our goals and, might I add, could very well lead to irreversible damage.

I don't really care what you or other people's motives are for trying to change/spin something as obvious as our goal as a community (perhaps a nicer resume feature?), but quite frankly it goes against everything this site should stand for and it undermines the people who volunteer their time to work towards that goal. And it's wrong.

IMO if you're not in agreement with the established goals, why take on a leadership position? And if, perhaps, your preference changed after your leadership promotion, why not hold off on your anti-PHP preference and do the right thing here which is be a champion for the cause?

Instead of the right thing here what we have is small efforts here and there to undermine the goal and no doubt these will be used as reasoning when yet another serious change proposal comes up. Specifically, an example would be the name at the top and the preferred usage of "DevNet" instead of PHPDN. I've suggested the name be corrected at the top multiple times and even multiple times in this thread. And I've already voiced my opinion about the anti-PHP preferred acronym.

Basically, I'm tired of this constant fight and having to deal with attitude and hostility when I'm trying to do nothing but revive the amazing network that the PHPDN was. Yeah, I know many of you joined here (and in some cases, learned PHP) long after we went into this current mode, but there is those of us out there that were around for the hay day, and been moderators here since the good ol' days and would like to see it return.

But I really don't ever see that happening again now. Especially considering a simple suggestion to correct the site name gets me a "let's contact Jason about that" response and earlier it took debating for hours to simply establish forums here for discussion reviving the network. So I'll do you guys a favour, here's one less vote against your anti-PHP camp.

Please demote me.

I'm done here.

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:45 am
by Chris Corbyn
WTF?? I've not visited the moderator boards to see what's going on for a while as I've been taking it easy. PM me, or email chris@w3style.co.uk.

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:19 am
by RobertGonzalez
Dude, m3mn0n, that was from private discussion between the mods. If you were going to post it to the community, why not post the other 2 and half pages that preceeded it? As I stated before, this solves nothing.

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:22 am
by Chris Corbyn
I just read the entire thread, and I have to say... " :? "

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:30 am
by RobertGonzalez
Juliet, from Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet wrote:What's in a name?
:roll:

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:36 pm
by alvinphp
It sounds liked m3mn0n is very frustrated. As I am only reading one posts of a thread it is hard to fairly give an opinion without seeing the entire context of that topic.

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:28 pm
by Luke
another one? :?

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:52 pm
by RobertGonzalez
For those that might be confused by m3mn0n's post, there has been ongoing discussion between the mods and admins regarding logo's, site names and general PHPDN topics. m3mn0n's post above is in response to a series of other posts in which the topic of the name of our community has come up. There has been a question raised as to whether we should continue to use the monikers 'DevNetwork' and 'The Developer's Network' instead of 'PHPDN' and 'The PHP Developer's Network'. Also brought up as a sidebar in this discussion was the topic of our community being a PHP only forum. What m3mn0n posted were his feelings toward my response toward another of his posts(as these things usually go in a forum setting).

I know it may seem a little confusing. Typically items discussed in private are kept private until such time as is fit to bring it to the public. It is never the intent of the mod team to air our laundry (dirty or otherwise) in the public forums. You have my apologies for any strife this may cause in the community.

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:19 pm
by superdezign
I didn't realize it was such a big deal. From my perspective, these forums are a combination of those arguments.

The general topic is website development, which is apparent from the many topics. However, all of those topics are centered around PHP. PHP can't do everything, and any sensible programmer realizes that in order to be successful, they must learn at least one good server-side language, one good client-side language, CSS, and HTML. It'd be bad for the community if every time that a user was attempting to perform a client-side function, we'd have to redirect them to some other community or every time they had a layout problem, we'd ignore their pleas.

I feel as though Everah was correct, that this IS a web development community, but everything leads back to the strong basis of PHP. No one said a *.php file couldn't include HTML and AJAX. :-p

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:44 pm
by Burrito
some things are meant to stay behind closed doors, especially when they might have a malicious intent.

I applaud those of you who are taking the higher ground (I need not mention names).

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:37 pm
by Kieran Huggins
Maybe it makes more sense to define what PHPDN is by what is isn't.

PHPDN isn't ASPDN
PHPDN isn't JSPDN
PHPDN isn't ColdFusionDN

But I think most of all, PHPDN isn't closed-minded. Though we sometimes talk about other stuff, we're self-selected to be PHP enthusiasts. As long as people understand that, there shouldn't be too much trouble.

For anyone overly concerned with names, I propose we rename these forums to "GruntMaster 3000 Developer Network" or GM3KDN and call it a day before we all become chicken people.

@m3mn0n: I hope you're not leaving - you're a fantastic resource here! If the politics of moderating isn't your cup of tea I can only hope you stick around with us commoners ;-)

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:39 pm
by Buddha443556
Really don't care about the mod's discussion but Sami leaving is quiet upsetting. I hope you reconsider Sami, you would be missed! Like so many others ... :(

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:03 am
by Charles256
just wish i had the rest of the convo to form a better opinion on the matter.... :-/

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:45 am
by thiscatis
Just from a community based view, posting private moderator conversations is a sad thing to do to enforce your arguments.

(not saying anything whether these are 1 or 0)

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:05 pm
by alvinphp
Burrito wrote:some things are meant to stay behind closed doors
IMHO, I could see this topic first starting out in a mod forum, but if the idea got serious I think the public should get a chance to voice their opinions as removing PHP from the name is pretty signficant. I first came here because it was a PHP forum. Had it been a general development forum (which there are a lot out there) I probably would of never started posting as I was looking for a place that focused on PHP.

Ironically I rarely code in PHP (anymore), but I keep posting because I enjoy the community here.