"Clean URLs" and Search Engine Optimization

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Buddha443556
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Post by Buddha443556 »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:I am not looking for reasons not to use clean urls, I'm just trying to find out the facts because I'm tired of reading 100 different "facts" about the issue that all seem to contradict each other. I agree that they are 100% more user-friendly, and that is why I use them, but I want HARD FACTS about short urls and how and why the do or do not help in search engine optimization.
SEO is all theory, based on a very shaky foundation at that. My ultimate SEO goal is to reduce the amount of traffic I receive from search engines. Do you really want to depend on search engines for your traffic? Why waste time worrying about SEO, put that time into producing standard compliant, user-friendly and content rich pages.

Personally, I think the need for clean urls might be the scent of a bad design.
Last edited by Buddha443556 on Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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s.dot
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Post by s.dot »

That question is easy.

70-85% of all traffic comes from search engines. Traffic = money. Traffic = people buying your stuff, seeing your standards compliant pages, and otherwise.. recognizing your existance.
Set Search Time - A google chrome extension. When you search only results from the past year (or set time period) are displayed. Helps tremendously when using new technologies to avoid outdated results.
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seodevhead
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Post by seodevhead »

SEO is not all theory. I couldn't even imagine designing a new site not knowing what I know now about SEO. In fact, I have numerous websites that a pure SEO plays with AdSense, and one of them pays 5 digits a year. Had it not been for strong application of various SEO strategies, I would not have even made a dent in the traffic I am pulling now.

I know some really dumb web developers that are getting lots of traffic and making lots of money because they spent a lot of time learning about SEO. On the other hand, I know some absolutely brilliant developers that still swear SEO is a "snakeoil" and an unnecessary fad. Which team you decide to subscribe to is up to you, but you can't simply say SEO shouldn't be thought of as a major aspect of a development plan.
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veridicus
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Post by veridicus »

scottayy wrote:70-85% of all traffic comes from search engines.
Depends entirely on the site. I have one site, for example, that gets about 1/5 of its traffic from search engines. But my traffic keeps increasing because I have a fan base. My site sort of extends the Slashdot subculture, so I "advertise" it in my Slashdot sig.

There are lots of sites that ignore search engine traffic.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

Can anybody think of any other common misconceptions than "Keywords in the url enhance search engine ranking" and "search engines do not understand query strings" ?
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seodevhead
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Post by seodevhead »

Who said that 'keywords in the URL increases rankings' is a misconception??? I consider this a checklist priority. And it not only helps your rankings, but it greatly increases your CTR as searchers find results FAR more relevant if their keywords are within the URL.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

do you have any sources for that? I'd really like to know for certain because I've read that their effect on rankings is minuscule and only effective if you have no other relevant keywords on your page. The CTR part is noted.

http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/200 ... 3917011691
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seodevhead
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Post by seodevhead »

I'm going to do something I normally don't do... and call out that guy's blog post as borderline ridiculous. If you were to peg one aspect of Google's algorithm that has strengthened in the past year, it has been the relevancy factor of keywords in the domain name.

This guy is saying keywords in the domain name and URL have basically no effect on rankings. I have based a large part of my living launching websites that's domains are extremely keyword rich for the very purpose of ranking #1 for fairly competitive (20k+/mo.) queries. I run a few websites that have "branding" URLs that contain no keywords... and they do no where near as good for their targeted keywords as others.

I don't disclose the websites I develop... but just as an example... I have one website I created that's URL is extremely desireable as far as keyword richness. For example... lets say people search "radio clocks"... well, I own "radioclocks.com" (I really don't, but I'm just making a comparitive example to a website that I do own)... I never did ANYTHING with the website other than create 1 page of copy.. and I got 1 backlink from a non-powerful website.

I rank #3 in Google for "radio clocks" which is searched 30k times a year (I really don't know how many times 'radio clocks' is searched btw). The other 9 websites on the first page are all powerful websites that have tons of backlinks. How the hell did my 1-page websites with 1 measly backlink rank #3? Well it sure wasn't my page copy!

Now I am not saying that folder/filenames after the hostname are as powerful... they are not. But they do share a factor in the ranking. First off, it is completely reasonable to agree with this. If you were google, would you increase the relevancy of a page if it had keywords in the filename, folder? Heck yea...

If you had an already existing website of 100's of pages that didn't have keywords in the filenames... would I suggest you go through and change them? No.. there are better things to do with your time. But it is a factor in the ranking, and no matter how small.. rankings are based on hundreds of factors... and getting to #1 most of the time is by snatching up enough points from all the categories.

Generally speaking, there are only a few places I take SEO advice from that I consider to be "gospel"... one of my favorites is:
Aaron Wall at http://www.seobook.com

The reason I feel Aaron is one of the TOP authorities in SEO is because he is less science and more intuition and marketing. Too many people try to figure out the algorithms WAYYY TO HARD and try to make scientific or mathematical sense of it all. While that is how the algorithms are developed, it is futile to test on such evaluative terms due to the fact the algorithms can change on a daily basis. Aaron is well connected in the industry, but always takes a common sense approach to things and never attempts to "sell" people with his stances. It is so easy for non-SEO's to read articles and blogs constructed by SEO's that's only attempts are to write stuff that sounds so complicated and scientific that it must be right.

SEO is not a science... it is an art. Just like marketing. Everyone does it a little bit different, but at the end of the day, there are the same basic principles that make up success. And everything you do can probably be broken down to fit the mold of one of the key foundational principles. I believe some people will never be great at SEO, just as some people will never be great at marketing. You have to be wired in such a way to naturally have a good mind for it. Much like stock trading. It is a volatile market you can't control... but then again, you can't just ride the wave for the long run because no one ever makes quick cash that way.

Whether you want to subscribe to my belief about the importance of keywords in URLs or not, totally your call. If it was me, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I found out someone took the keywords out of my filenames on some of my AdSense sites. I got way too much money to lose.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

I trust you about the keywords in the URLs. I guess the only way to get "definitive" answer is to set up a site with no keywords in the url and see how it fares in search engine rankings, and then after a few months, add the keywords to the url and see what effect it has. I'm going to try it... and I just happen to have a site that would be perfect for it.

Anyway, now I'm down to only one common misconception. Are there any others y'all can think of?
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

Here's an article I wrote to sum up this thread:
http://blog.mc2design.com/archives/10/w ... clean-urls

Thanks seodevhead, let me know if there's anything I missed!
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Buddha443556
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Post by Buddha443556 »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:Here's an article I wrote to sum up this thread:
http://blog.mc2design.com/archives/10/w ... clean-urls!
I like the conclusion.
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Post by seodevhead »

Very well done Ninja. I think it's a great article on the subject.

Just as a note on the test you decide to perform... if you plan on switching over the 'non-clean' URLs to clean URL's... I'm guessing you will be doing 301's? This 'may' make you take a hit in the SERPs. I am not too keen on the various effects of 301 redirects with Google, but it is my understanding that sometimes you can take an initial hit in the SERPs from it. But note, just 'initial'... not long term. So this isn't a simple A|B Test.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

seodevhead wrote:Very well done Ninja. I think it's a great article on the subject.
Why thank you, but I couldn't have written it without your valuable input. I think that blogging is a great way to learn about a subject beyond just "enough to get by", which is how I usually learn things. I'm going to start writing as in-depth as possible about web development / seo topics on this blog simply to learn about them myself. It's a great way of learning (almost like doing a research paper in school).
seodevhead wrote:Just as a note on the test you decide to perform... if you plan on switching over the 'non-clean' URLs to clean URL's... I'm guessing you will be doing 301's? This 'may' make you take a hit in the SERPs. I am not too keen on the various effects of 301 redirects with Google, but it is my understanding that sometimes you can take an initial hit in the SERPs from it. But note, just 'initial'... not long term. So this isn't a simple A|B Test.
yes I know it's going to take a few months (or more) to perform the test. I'll let you all know how it goes.
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Post by Maugrim_The_Reaper »

Isn't there a thriving trade in "test driving" domains so morally challenged groups can assess which ones garner a worthwhile traffic level to make money off? I'm not hugely SEO aware, but that sort of sticks out there a lot recently...

Great post Ninja :).
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Post by seodevhead »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:yes I know it's going to take a few months (or more) to perform the test. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Your data is going to be flawed for two reasons... one, google see's webpages like fine wine... the older they get, the sweeter the ranking. So after a couple months, those pages are going to have a bit more "umph" because they either pick up some links, internal linking changes, and just for the reason it's been online longer. Secondly, over a couple months time, you are going to most certainly see some algo refreshes, so you'd be potentially comparing Algorithm A with Algorithm B (apples to oranges).. when really you need to figure out how to compare apples to apples.
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