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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:04 am
by matthijs
Even the fact that we are discussing this is - I think - ridiculous. I mean, to be clear, I have a honestly bought, legal copy of XP. Updates of software should just run in the background, at most notify you that it did update, it should not cause any trouble or annoyance and it should not communicate all kinds of stuff back "home" to make sure your copy is legal. Come on, it is legal, trust me!

Besides the practical side of it (technical issues) it's also the subjective side of it. All this stuff is not preventing people from illegally downloading software. It's only annoying the legitimate users. How would it feel like when someone would visit your house - unannounced - once in a while to check if your TV is legal?

All this just gives people yet another reason why they don't want to buy a legal copy ....

Also, why do they call it genuine advantage? Why don't they just be transparent and open about it? A nice friendly popup message telling:
"A lot of people are illegally using our software. We want to make sure your copy is legal. Therefore a small program is installed which will check your version each time you download our updates. You won't notice anything and we will not do anything other then checking your product key. Guaranteed. Thanks for your understanding".
Most people would not have any problem with this.

But, as it is now, they are doing stuff behind my back, trying to get as much info as possible without my consent, trying to sell me more windows software, etc (yes I did do some reading since yesterday).

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:07 am
by volka
matthijs wrote:How would it feel like when someone would visit your house - unannounced - once in a while to check if your TV is legal?
They were here about a month ago. There's something like a "TV tax" in germany. I don't have a TV and therefore do not pay for it. The GEZ can't believe that so every once in a while there is someone ringing at my door. With WGA on one hand and guys ringing at my door and stupendously dumb obvious "marketing research about television viewing behavior" phone calls for a product I don't even use on the other hand I think I got acquiescent when it comes to microsoft's software calling home. At least it stops as soon as I stop using windows.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:55 am
by Charles256
Actually, you should install the WGA at all costs and all other updates Microsoft recommends. After all, they did make the software. Might as well do what they ask you to do, it won't harm your computer in any way. In MOST cases unless you own illegal software you'll be just fine.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:29 pm
by AKA Panama Jack
Charles256 wrote:Actually, you should install the WGA at all costs and all other updates Microsoft recommends. After all, they did make the software. Might as well do what they ask you to do, it won't harm your computer in any way. In MOST cases unless you own illegal software you'll be just fine.
This is from someone who hasn't read about all of the problems people have had with it or experienced them.

I have installed all of the Updates for windows EXCEPT for WGA and I will NEVER install WGA. WGA can cause legitimate Windows owners all kinds of trouble because it can sometimes think your aren't running a legit version. Also, WGA gets damned testy about hardware upgrades causing you to call Microsoft to try and get things running right again.

WGA is like the auto companies adding a feature to the computer that runs new cars that will check to see if the parts in the engine are Genuine Automaker Parts. If the cars computer thinks the parts are NOT Genuine Automaker Parts from the automaker it will cause your car to run bad by limiting performance until you get Genuine Automaker Parts or call the automakers service department to get it fixed.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:48 pm
by volka
I thought wga is only nagging the user if it finds the product key invalid (except vista which is an "other people's problem" for me) ?

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:59 pm
by alvinphp
AKA Panama Jack wrote:Windows owners all kinds of trouble because it can sometimes think your aren't running a legit version. Also, WGA gets damned testy about hardware upgrades causing you to call Microsoft to try and get things running right again.
You are right, WGA will sometimes wrongly think your version is not legit. The chances of this happening is around 1 in 400,000 (.00025%) Chance. To put that in perspective you have a 1 in 700,000 chance of being hit by lightning. So, though it is true that it is possible that WGA will wrongly accuse your legit version of Windows the chances of it happening are relatively small.

If you do install WGA though you get to use Windows Defender which can protect you from much greater threats then MS thinking your version of windows is not Legit.

Everything in life requires taking a risk.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:37 pm
by matthijs
alvinphp wrote:If you do install WGA though you get to use Windows Defender which can protect you from much greater threats then MS thinking your version of windows is not Legit.

Everything in life requires taking a risk.
What threats might that be then? Somehow "windows defender" does sound a bit ... contradiction intermino-like ?

(sorry that was too easy :) )

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:12 pm
by Kieran Huggins
alvinphp wrote:1 in 400,000 (.00025%) Chance......you have a 1 in 700,000 chance of being hit by lightning.....
Either these figures are incorrect, or I and many of my friends, family & colleagues should seriously invest in rubber boots.

400,000 doesn't seem as large as it once was... 8O

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:23 pm
by AKA Panama Jack
Kieran Huggins wrote:
alvinphp wrote:1 in 400,000 (.00025%) Chance......you have a 1 in 700,000 chance of being hit by lightning.....
Either these figures are incorrect, or I and many of my friends, family & colleagues should seriously invest in rubber boots.

400,000 doesn't seem as large as it once was... 8O
Well, you know how people tend to pull figures out of thin air. :)

BTW, there are better and still free alternatives to Windows Defender. If someone is using Windows Defender as a good reason to install WGA then they have already lost the argument.

There is absolutely no reason to need to install WGA. You can get all critical windows updates without WGA being installed.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:15 pm
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
Windows Defender is a pain anyway - I don't mind bits and pieces of scanning, but it keeps sucking 40MB RAM while keeping my HDD clicking for hours at a time. Either it's revolutionary and needs all that RAM and disk spinning, or I'm better off now having uninstalled it and picked something less obtrusive. AFAIK, the WGA doesn't impact any critical updates.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:41 pm
by jayshields
A couple of takes on this thread...

First off, I think that judging Microsoft software from how many people you've seen complaining about it over the internet is not a good way to judge it. Personally, Microsoft software plays nice with me - I haven't ever had a BSOD on XP, I've installed WGA no problems, and Windows Defender is the best malware removal tool I've used. I don't go to multiple forums on the internet just to say this. I just take it for granted.

I think alot of people forget Microsoft provides technical support with their non-OEM products. People expect to post problems onto forums and want answers, and still moan even if they fix the problem.

On a side note, following the TV inspection mentioned earlier...

In England you need a TV license to watch TV. You have to pay for this yearly. It's currently around £135 per year (for colour TV's), and the price rises pretty much every year. At the moment I live in a student halls of residence, rather like a block of flats. They presume us students won't pay for TV licenses (fair enough) so scan all the buildings from outside. Their scanners are so useless that one TV signal they detect could be getting used anywhere in the building. So they have sent multiple letters to everyone in the halls (around 3/4 letters to 150 people) threatening to visit us all individually and check our rooms for TV's, and if found legal action will get taken followed by a fine.

The ridiculous thing about the above is that the rulings are so poorly put together. How do you judge if someone is reguarly watching TV without a license?
- You have a TV in your room: storage?
- You have a TV card in your PC: playing consoles, recording your desktop?

I look forward to when they visit my room. I'm going to open the door, stark naked, junk all over the floor, a TV on the floor, a TV card in the PC, sour milk in every corner of the room, proudly lay down on my bed and say "Go ahead, have a look" - while scratching my balls :)

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:14 pm
by John Cartwright
I could only imagine that happening..

*knock knock
Jayshields: Who`s there?
TV Police: The TV police!
Jayshields: Could you give me 10 minutes to pour sour milk around my room..
TV Police: Sure.

Seriously though, you guys have to pay a TV tax? Wow.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:15 pm
by Charles256
AKA Panama Jack wrote:
Charles256 wrote:Actually, you should install the WGA at all costs and all other updates Microsoft recommends. After all, they did make the software. Might as well do what they ask you to do, it won't harm your computer in any way. In MOST cases unless you own illegal software you'll be just fine.
This is from someone who hasn't read about all of the problems people have had with it or experienced them.

I have installed all of the Updates for windows EXCEPT for WGA and I will NEVER install WGA. WGA can cause legitimate Windows owners all kinds of trouble because it can sometimes think your aren't running a legit version. Also, WGA gets damned testy about hardware upgrades causing you to call Microsoft to try and get things running right again.

WGA is like the auto companies adding a feature to the computer that runs new cars that will check to see if the parts in the engine are Genuine Automaker Parts. If the cars computer thinks the parts are NOT Genuine Automaker Parts from the automaker it will cause your car to run bad by limiting performance until you get Genuine Automaker Parts or call the automakers service department to get it fixed.
Actually Panama Jack I have read those reports. Don't cast judgments on me. Moving on. I, nor anyone I have personally met, has had any problems and I've personally installed it on about twenty five computers with absolutely no problems.

Moving on: I love giving you windows haters a hard time. It really does make my night enjoyable.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:39 pm
by Jenk
Charles256 wrote:
AKA Panama Jack wrote:
Charles256 wrote:Actually, you should install the WGA at all costs and all other updates Microsoft recommends. After all, they did make the software. Might as well do what they ask you to do, it won't harm your computer in any way. In MOST cases unless you own illegal software you'll be just fine.
This is from someone who hasn't read about all of the problems people have had with it or experienced them.

I have installed all of the Updates for windows EXCEPT for WGA and I will NEVER install WGA. WGA can cause legitimate Windows owners all kinds of trouble because it can sometimes think your aren't running a legit version. Also, WGA gets damned testy about hardware upgrades causing you to call Microsoft to try and get things running right again.

WGA is like the auto companies adding a feature to the computer that runs new cars that will check to see if the parts in the engine are Genuine Automaker Parts. If the cars computer thinks the parts are NOT Genuine Automaker Parts from the automaker it will cause your car to run bad by limiting performance until you get Genuine Automaker Parts or call the automakers service department to get it fixed.
Actually Panama Jack I have read those reports. Don't cast judgments on me. Moving on. I, nor anyone I have personally met, has had any problems and I've personally installed it on about twenty five computers with absolutely no problems.

Moving on: I love giving you windows haters a hard time. It really does make my night enjoyable.
I'm going to bite.

Do you realise the complete oxymoronic attitude you have in this thread? "Winding up the windows haters, yet proving to the world I am the Bill Gate's Official Fan Club 'Best Microsoft Fan' Member" You've not once given any sources, whilst others have given links to well known problem sites, articles, and so forth regarding problems with the WGA, yet just because it hasn't happened to you in your little world, it can't be true?

"Don't judge you" yet you are happy to judge the rest of us on a whim...

For your information, I dislike Microsoft for the following, but not limited to, list:
a) Assumptions by Microsoft. I do not want, nor care for most of the fluff installed. I do not want QoS, I do not want "Talking Sam" and I do not want accessibility features. There is a heap more but I'll spare the details. All of the above are installed, with no option to not install them. I especially dislike the installation procedure of "wipe the entire system to make way for Windows."
b) *Nothing* Microsoft have done was their own idea. *Everything* (and I even challenge you to point something out) was their own idea. Even your beloved windows was not their own idea (Bought from Xerox.) They have stolen or bought ideas, put a price on it, profiteered and left the original author/creator in the dark.
c) Ridiculous cases like the Microsft vs Google case.. over books and their copyrights. Why are Microsoft taking action over literature?
d) Moronic attitude by MS and their PR/Marketing. Arrogance at it's finest.

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:56 pm
by Charles256
Jenk wrote:I'm going to bite.

Do you realise the complete oxymoronic attitude you have in this thread? "Winding up the windows haters, yet proving to the world I am the Bill Gate's Official Fan Club 'Best Microsoft Fan' Member" You've not once given any sources, whilst others have given links to well known problem sites, articles, and so forth regarding problems with the WGA, yet just because it hasn't happened to you in your little world, it can't be true?

"Don't judge you" yet you are happy to judge the rest of us on a whim...

For your information, I dislike Microsoft for the following, but not limited to, list:
a) Assumptions by Microsoft. I do not want, nor care for most of the fluff installed. I do not want QoS, I do not want "Talking Sam" and I do not want accessibility features. There is a heap more but I'll spare the details. All of the above are installed, with no option to not install them. I especially dislike the installation procedure of "wipe the entire system to make way for Windows."
b) *Nothing* Microsoft have done was their own idea. *Everything* (and I even challenge you to point something out) was their own idea. Even your beloved windows was not their own idea (Bought from Xerox.) They have stolen or bought ideas, put a price on it, profiteered and left the original author/creator in the dark.
c) Ridiculous cases like the Microsft vs Google case.. over books and their copyrights. Why are Microsoft taking action over literature?
d) Moronic attitude by MS and their PR/Marketing. Arrogance at it's finest.
Thanks for biting. You'll go nicely on my grill. Nope, not Bill Gate's number one fan. I actually happen to love me some Ubuntu. Next: I don't have to give sources. I'm telling people my experiences. If you need sources to back up my experiences then you're welcome to come to AL and I'll let you sleep on my floor, fair enough? :-D My world is no smaller than yours, by the way. Willing to bet it smells better too ( explicitly said to rile you up, mind you. :) )

I don't think I really judged you except to state the obvious ( a few of you seem to have some serious issues with Microsoft).

And, to be blunt. I didn't read your reasons for disliking Microsoft. Don't care at all, not even remotely. I happen to enjoy how easy it makes it to develop and test my programs for the windows operating system. Until Linux can make it equally easy I'll still use windows for development. And I still stand by recommendation for the OP to install WGA.

Hum.... : thinks : Oh yes, install WGA and if you run into issues call Microsoft tech support. Never had a wait time personally over ten minutes and they were very helpful. The one time they weren't a manager called me the next day clearing the matter up.

Care to bite again? I don't really want to make an e commerce site tonight and you're making ti easier for me not too, many thanks.