Standard? Website Software

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RedTape
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Standard? Website Software

Post by RedTape »

Hi,

I develop small websites in my spare time and have found PHP & MYSQL to be my software-of-choice for the majority of my web design projects which use a database and process user input.

I recently offered to create a php/mysql web-based application for free for my employer (A City Government) to help solve an ongoing data-tracking problem that City IT Division has ignored for years.

The IT Division is too busy to maintain the existing web pages on the City web server, and when a problem arises, they remove the offending content stating that they don't have time or inclination to solve the problem.

Since I can not count on any IT assistance, I decided to go outside the City network and create my web-based application on my own, using my two favorite programs. (PHP/MYSQL)

When the IT Manager got his turn to comment on the project, he said I would have to use Microsoft Front Page and Microsoft Access to create the site, software he termed as "City Standard".

I would like to read the thoughts and opinions of some other web developers to let me know if I should spend any time creating a site that conforms to the IT Manager's rules, or should I pursue my initial intent and develop using PHP/MYSQL or some other method?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts on this matter.
matthijs
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Post by matthijs »

Microsoft Front Page and Microsoft Access? :lol: :lol: :lol:

No, serious. That's just ridiculous. This guy must have been joking. Or, in case he was serious, he has absolutely no clue about webdesign/development.

Front Page is a nice little program which comes in handy when your aunt, who is not tech-savvy and just knows how to surf around and email a bit, wants to make a webpage for her knitting club. It's not for any serious web development.
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Kieran Huggins
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Post by Kieran Huggins »

I never thought Access was a serious DB until recently - I was corrected by some DBAs that have my respect.

Frontpage is balls, however. It's not even a product anymore!
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CoderGoblin
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Post by CoderGoblin »

It is often the case that "Management" has little idea of what technology is either available or actually useful, especially in large companies. Often when a company has an IT department they get to "choose" what is allowed or not, if not it is decisions made with "sales reps" over a game of golf. Without high management stepping in, additional useful programs are often not allowed (quake on PC's anyone). It may "muck up" the software they use to install machines from scratch. IT departments also have to allow for training and support. If they don't know "new" programs it is often the case that they do not want to have the "hassle" of people requiring additional support. For example what happens if the MySQL server goes down. Who is responsible for the maintenance of any code etc ? What happens if you leave the company ? What additional training is required so people can maintain/support the project.

Whilst I have never worked for a company like this I have come across it whilst consulting. Without the IT Dept and management buy-in you are unfortunately unlikely to get far. One of the common ways to sell the idea is to actually produce a "return of investment" analysis. How much would training cost for the IT Dept to be able to maintain and support the code/webserver and database. How much "money" would be saved by having the application. Management are also often wary OpenSource. The reason... If it's free its no good.
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RobertGonzalez
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Post by RobertGonzalez »

Standards are standards. If the city has chosen those as a standard, then you as a developer to the city will have to comply or provide significant reasoning as to why you should violate the standard when offering your service. I know it sounds a little 'yes man' but they are the client and you are the provider of services that need to integrate into their systems.

Personally, I will not use Access or Front Page. However, if that is what they use, that is what they use.
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pickle
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Post by pickle »

If the IT Manager wants to make the website in Frontpage & Access let him do it. Don't sully your name & reputation with that <span style='color:blue' title='I&#39;m naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span>.
Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
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Christopher
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Re: Standard? Website Software

Post by Christopher »

RedTape wrote:When the IT Manager got his turn to comment on the project, he said I would have to use Microsoft Front Page and Microsoft Access to create the site, software he termed as "City Standard".
You could certainly develop simple, cookie cutter web app with you IT Manager's solution. In turn you could build just about anything with your solution. The question for the IT Manager is whether he is proposing a solution out of ignorance of PHP/MySQL or whether he has experience in both and has selected his solution as the best one? "City Standards" change all the time as technology improves -- whether building codes or IT solutions -- so that is a slightly bogus argument.
(#10850)
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RedTape
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Post by RedTape »

Thanks for the replies.

To explain further, the IT Manager only minimally works with web pages.
He has a busy workload, and naturally resists any change that could add to that workload.

So my desired solution was to develop this site on my own, without using any City resources. (Web-based, not on their server.) Unfortunately, although the IT Division is incapable of performing the task, they won't allow me to do it either. Of course, I could do it anyway, but I like my job too much to defy the Assistant City Manager, who has backed the IT Manager 100%.

I discussed this with my supervisor today who offered to pay me overtime to build the application using MSAccess and Frontpage. I told him that would be a waste of City resources, simply throwing junk on junk.

I will write a program specification, and submit it to the IT Division through the chain of command. They will probably hire a full-time employee or an outside consultant who will end up building it using PHP, since they will probably actually listen to a consultant when he chokes at the thought of Front page. $150,000 and three years later, I might have something similar to what I want... Working for the government is so fun.

Why are taxes and government fees so high?
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RobertGonzalez
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Post by RobertGonzalez »

Just keep in mind that just because it is the standard does not make it the best option. Your IT manager should know that, but it is also his department. If you cannot provide significant reasoning for why the current standard is garbage, there is no reason to change it.

If you are looking for a project to build, I'd say build it. If (or perhaps when) their standards and subsequent applications developed using said standard go down in flames, you will have a product ready to sell them. I did this once, and it worked out in favor of both myself and my company. Plus it gave me a wealth of knowledge about coding complete PHP applications and put me on my way to learning how to be a halfway decent developer.
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pickle
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Post by pickle »

An organization I work with made their website with Frontpage. Their home page was just text & styling (not an image to be found) at it was > 1MB. Of just text. That was generated by Frontpage. Did I mention it was > 1MB. Of text?!

Mention that to the IT manager.
Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
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