php vs asp
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- superdezign
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Okay then. Just don't be too easily convinced to sway either way. Most major companies are moving towards open-source (PHP). You don't see many switching from PHP to ASP. However, ASP is something you'll need to learn if you're interested in working for businesses that have Microsoft Servers that only have ASP enabled on them (which is actually a lot of them).
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Charles256
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I know. I'll always love my PHP. It's just this .NET thing ( as I like to use technical terms
) Allows me to use c# or VB to code for like every .NET language made. Kind of hard to not be impressed/excited about such a thing. Oh well, I'll take my microsoft love to the windows forums. Or I would, but I can't seem to find one that makes me feel at home. Hence, I'll be staying at devnet forever. So, who thinks we've taken this topic sufficiently off topic?
- superdezign
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alex.barylski
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One of the largest and most popular programming communities, especially for Windows development...Charles256 wrote:I know. I'll always love my PHP. It's just this .NET thing ( as I like to use technical terms) Allows me to use c# or VB to code for like every .NET language made. Kind of hard to not be impressed/excited about such a thing. Oh well, I'll take my microsoft love to the windows forums. Or I would, but I can't seem to find one that makes me feel at home. Hence, I'll be staying at devnet forever. So, who thinks we've taken this topic sufficiently off topic?
I have been a member for long time. I even had a number one rated article for about 3 months but it has recently been bumped to number two in it's category. Speaking of which, you should read it...and give me a 5
Anyways, seriously http://www.codeproject.com is an amazing site if your interested in Windows development using any of M$ technologies...
There are some pretty esteemed people on that site, some industry veterans that have mentored me since I joined. Everything from Windows internals to architecture and design, just like this T & D forum, except those guys actually have applications developed to back up claims of experience.
Check it out.
You'll quickly discover a zeal for Windows technologies there as you will open source technologies (esp. PHP) as you do here. Try and remain open minded and remember that any language, technology or tool is just that. People that scoff at new ideas are simply stubborn and stuck in their ways - use that as your competitive advantage.
Cheers
- The Phoenix
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Preface: This thread is wildly off-topic, and since there hasn't been any follow-up posts by the original poster in a while, and since everyone else is talking about Microsoft, I figured I'd continue the conversation. Apologies to the mods if inappropriate.
However, in the case of Microsoft, I personally have good reasons for my dislike, and plenty of reasons for others as well.
They have a proven track record lasting over twenty years. That track record includes predatory behavior (unfairly competing with competitors - even those with better products), a blatant disrespect for standards in every industry, and a strong willingness to ignore their customers once they gain monopoly status (see IE6->IE7, and Office->Sharepoint).
Microsoft as a company has a substantial impact on the computing world. They've destroyed companies that embraced standards, influenced public policy to reject open standards, forced customers to accept draconian control over their computers and data, and more.
Microsoft has earned the hatred of many intelligent, rational, reasonable professionals. I agree with your statement that they produce products, some of which are good, and some of which are not, but their business practices, their history, and their overall interaction with the computer community is negative. Until and unless that changes, I'll continue to dislike them, their products, and their business processes.
Undoubtedly true. Its fun to 'rage against the machine', and hate the dominant player, and cheer on the underdog, so you get a bit of that for anyone that gets large. Even Google & Apple has haters these days, so clearly, its common.ole wrote:I think a lot of people dislike Microsoft because it is fashionable to do so.
However, in the case of Microsoft, I personally have good reasons for my dislike, and plenty of reasons for others as well.
They have a proven track record lasting over twenty years. That track record includes predatory behavior (unfairly competing with competitors - even those with better products), a blatant disrespect for standards in every industry, and a strong willingness to ignore their customers once they gain monopoly status (see IE6->IE7, and Office->Sharepoint).
Microsoft as a company has a substantial impact on the computing world. They've destroyed companies that embraced standards, influenced public policy to reject open standards, forced customers to accept draconian control over their computers and data, and more.
Microsoft has earned the hatred of many intelligent, rational, reasonable professionals. I agree with your statement that they produce products, some of which are good, and some of which are not, but their business practices, their history, and their overall interaction with the computer community is negative. Until and unless that changes, I'll continue to dislike them, their products, and their business processes.
- superdezign
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I'm so with you there.
Microsoft certainly has talented minds behind the corporation, however, and not in the sense of creativity and intuitiveness. They've always seemed to start out a step behind, and then end up three steps ahead. Microsoft is like a big marketing company that sells because it sells.
Everyone knows the DOS/Windows/Mac story. Microsoft didn't invent it, but they sure made money off of it.
Microsoft created the Xbox and everyone laughed. They said it'd go out worse than Dreamcast did, because it Dreamcast came in big... Xbox just tried to. Xbox started out as the underdog big time, but they paid Bungie for Halo (which I had been anticipating to come out on PC months before Xbox was even announced) and they came out on top again.
The only time Microsoft has ever had any real competition is online. Netscape gave them a run for their money, thus beginning Microsoft's apparent need to create their own JavaScript, which they are obviously still trying to do, even if it's the same concepts with different variable names. And even though Netscape was gaining a huge user base, somehow most Netscape users ended up switching back to IE. Then IE was brought to Mac and sucked, but eventually they fixed it just enough for people to get frustrated with Safari, and stopped there.
This pattern scares me. Windows Live is competing with Google and Google is huge. If Microsoft beats Google, there's basically no hope for anyone. That's the only reason I really support Google. The less of the two evils.
Microsoft certainly has talented minds behind the corporation, however, and not in the sense of creativity and intuitiveness. They've always seemed to start out a step behind, and then end up three steps ahead. Microsoft is like a big marketing company that sells because it sells.
Everyone knows the DOS/Windows/Mac story. Microsoft didn't invent it, but they sure made money off of it.
Microsoft created the Xbox and everyone laughed. They said it'd go out worse than Dreamcast did, because it Dreamcast came in big... Xbox just tried to. Xbox started out as the underdog big time, but they paid Bungie for Halo (which I had been anticipating to come out on PC months before Xbox was even announced) and they came out on top again.
The only time Microsoft has ever had any real competition is online. Netscape gave them a run for their money, thus beginning Microsoft's apparent need to create their own JavaScript, which they are obviously still trying to do, even if it's the same concepts with different variable names. And even though Netscape was gaining a huge user base, somehow most Netscape users ended up switching back to IE. Then IE was brought to Mac and sucked, but eventually they fixed it just enough for people to get frustrated with Safari, and stopped there.
This pattern scares me. Windows Live is competing with Google and Google is huge. If Microsoft beats Google, there's basically no hope for anyone. That's the only reason I really support Google. The less of the two evils.
- Christopher
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Re: php vs asp
To respond to the OP ... if you have to ask the question then the answer is probably no. If someone is telling you that, they are probably trying to fool you because they know ASP and do not know PHP. The capabilities are very simialr. It is possible but improbable that they are implementing some very esoteric system that only runs on Windows and only had an interface for ASP.m2babaey wrote:I meant there are sites that can be built by asp but not by php
is that true?
To respond to the general conversation about Microsoft I think there is a little bit of a misguided understanding of what people involved with free and open source software think and want. It comes from the proprietary software world where you are forced to buy from one vendor or another. You choose Oracle over Microsoft or IBM over HP. It is a system of winners and losers as it relates to software sales. That's why the discussion is put in terms of being for or against companies.
I think that most people on the free and open source software side simply want a world not ruled by a monopoly. It doesn't matter who the company is that has the monopoly -- we just don't want any monopolies. The problem is the monopoly not the company. The goal is open standards that create an open market for software development. If it is then cheaper to buy a piece of software than develop it -- that's fine. If it then makes more sense to distribute the costs of development across several companies and individuals -- that's good too. But it is really a desire for an open standards world vs a monopolistic standards world.
Every time I currently choose free and open source software, I am helping to move away from a world of monopolistic standards toward a world of open standards. Once we reach the promised land then that won't be necessary any more.
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alex.barylski
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Re: php vs asp
Monopolies do suck, unless your the company with the monopoly. Then the grass starts lookin' greener.arborint wrote:To respond to the OP ... if you have to ask the question then the answer is probably no. If someone is telling you that, they are probably trying to fool you because they know ASP and do not know PHP. The capabilities are very simialr. It is possible but improbable that they are implementing some very esoteric system that only runs on Windows and only had an interface for ASP.m2babaey wrote:I meant there are sites that can be built by asp but not by php
is that true?
To respond to the general conversation about Microsoft I think there is a little bit of a misguided understanding of what people involved with free and open source software think and want. It comes from the proprietary software world where you are forced to buy from one vendor or another. You choose Oracle over Microsoft or IBM over HP. It is a system of winners and losers as it relates to software sales. That's why the discussion is put in terms of being for or against companies.
I think that most people on the free and open source software side simply want a world not ruled by a monopoly. It doesn't matter who the company is that has the monopoly -- we just don't want any monopolies. The problem is the monopoly not the company. The goal is open standards that create an open market for software development. If it is then cheaper to buy a piece of software than develop it -- that's fine. If it then makes more sense to distribute the costs of development across several companies and individuals -- that's good too. But it is really a desire for an open standards world vs a monopolistic standards world.
Every time I currently choose free and open source software, I am helping to move away from a world of monopolistic standards toward a world of open standards. Once we reach the promised land then that won't be necessary any more.
- AKA Panama Jack
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Uninstall ASP 2.0 and the IDE.Charles256 wrote:Workig on generating some code. Complete newb with ASP 2.0 and this IDE so it'll take me a second because I can't yet remember how to do anything.
EDIT: Not to mention my computer is running oddly slow... :-/
It really is a pile of doggie poo. Hey, it was brought to you by the same people who brought us Frontpage and we all know what THAT program is like for creating HTML. :shudders:
- AKA Panama Jack
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Well, considering how Microsoft products in general tend to cause that attitude because of the poor way they are written or implimented what can you expect. They really haven't changed.Charles256 wrote:My point is, I'm sick of people hating something just because it's from Microsoft. That's stupid.
About the only thing Microsoft ever released that was GOOD is the Intellimouse and that was hardware. I still have two of those mice and been using them for 5-6 years now. Damned they are rugged things. Wore the coating off one of them.
- AKA Panama Jack
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Getting the job done faster doesn't mean doing the job better. Most of the time it means getting the job done worse. One of the bad things about ASP 2.0 is it is a resource hog. I wouldn't use it for any high traffic site.Charles256 wrote:I'm of the breed I don't care what they stand for. Does it help me get my job done at an acceptable standard and faster?
- superdezign
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Charles256
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Read the last half of my statement. Benchmarks to prove it's a resource hog? ( my slow down was due to other issues with my computer.) I really don't care to be honest, I'm never saying another word about anything Microsoft on this forum or getting involved in another thread regarding one because it invariably leads to bashing. BTW, the html Visual Web Designer generate validates once you add a font encoding and remove some horribly stupid comment it generates when it goes to generate javascript ( only have to do that the first time though ). Is it the best code around? No. I could generate cleaner any day of the week but the fact that it validates and uses styles to achieve it's results is a step in the right direction. As for it being a monopoly, write your nearest law maker and have them sued. There. Said my peace, if anyone has anything to say back or questions to ask that isn't just "I hate Microsoft" feel free to use the myriad of options in my sig to contact me. I'm through trying to talk this lot about anything but PHP.AKA Panama Jack wrote:Getting the job done faster doesn't mean doing the job better. Most of the time it means getting the job done worse. One of the bad things about ASP 2.0 is it is a resource hog. I wouldn't use it for any high traffic site.Charles256 wrote:I'm of the breed I don't care what they stand for. Does it help me get my job done at an acceptable standard and faster?
- RobertGonzalez
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Re: php vs asp
I am surprised that so many of you bit on such an old flamewar topic.m2babaey wrote:I have heard asp is more powerful that php.
is that correct?

We all have opinions about this, and those of us with more experience developing will have the answer to the question presented. Of course, asking that question at a PHP forum is like asking the inverse of that question on an ASP forum. Why bother asking? Why not try it and see for yourself? Stop being a fearful developer, grow some courage and find out for yourself if ASP is more powerful than PHP.