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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:03 pm
by intellivision
superdezign wrote::?: Complexity? At what point was complexity implied during this thread?
Hacking the code and the bookkeeping involved in collecting city tax. That's the added complexity. Or do I not understand your question?
superdezign wrote:And again, there's little reason to argue with a customer. Doesn't sound like a good way to get referrals.
I'm not arguing with her. Where did I say that? Again: Wouldn't it be easier -- even, my duty as her developer -- to inform her that the complexity of city tax can be safely ignored if that in fact is the case?

Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:11 pm
by nickvd
No matter how 'unlikely' it is to get caught, I would NEVER advise ANYONE in any sort of business context to break the law... ANY law...

I for one dont want to take the chance of any personal liability for the sake of a couple hours of work that i would be billing for anyway...


I'm guessing you're not charging by the hour, but instead quoted a cheap price without fully knowing what was involved...

Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:16 pm
by intellivision
nickvd wrote:No matter how 'unlikely' it is to get caught, I would NEVER advise ANYONE in any sort of business context to break the law... ANY law...

I for one dont want to take the chance of any personal liability for the sake of a couple hours of work that i would be billing for anyway...
I'd be offering information to a client. I guess this is where you and I part ways in how we act as developers, and that's fine. Vive la difference, they say.

nickvd wrote:I'm guessing you're not charging by the hour, but instead quoted a cheap price without fully knowing what was involved...
Ah, assumptions made over the internet. If I had a dollar for each.

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:00 am
by Bill H
I have doing software development for business clients for almost thirty years and I can tell you one thing for certain. When a client hires you to develop software they do not want you to expand that mandate to advising them on how to run their business. They want you to develop their software. Period.

They know how to run their business. At least, they believe they do and if they don't, they do not need you telling them how to do so.

You think you are doing them a favor. You are not. You are insulting them. They are business people. You are a software developer.

A person hiring you as a subcontractor does not see you an an equal partner. They may talk to you in that manner, They may be friendly and respectful to you. But at the end of the day the business belongs to them and they are paying you for a service. A limited service. They are not paying you to teach them anything. They certainly are not paying you to teach them how to run their business. They are paying you to implement software to their specifications.

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:35 pm
by intellivision
This is a businesswoman starting her business on the side so she can quit her job one day, not NASA.

She welcomes any help. She's never done this before, as most my clients haven't.

She's a grown woman, and can sort and act on information given to her. I'm not a robot, and neither are my clients, and I assure you none of them have all the information they need to start selling goods online.

I'm more than a developer to my clients, because most of them are starting their first business, and they need any helpful business information they can get. I sell things on the web, and my experience is invaluable to them.

When one tells me they don't want my advice I'll let you know.

Its in poor taste to tell me how to behave as a developer. You don't know anything about my business or my clients save for a thread on an internet forum. :?

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:57 pm
by nickvd
Do you not understand that you are advising your client to break the law

That does not bother you?

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:45 pm
by intellivision
nickvd wrote:Do you not understand that you are advising your client to break the law

That does not bother you?
Do you voluntarily pay out-of-state internet sales tax as a buyer? Do you stop completely at all stop signs, and do you advise friends to do the same when you're driving with them?

She is well aware of the illegality of that position. Its a value judgment for her to make.

She's an adult who is capable of making rational decisions.

If she was a child, mentally incapacitated or heavily medicated I would think harder about passing this option to her. But then again, if she met any of those criteria, I probably wouldn't be working on cart software for her.

:wink:

Cheers.

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:05 pm
by nickvd
Well, I nor anyone else can convince you otherwise, so I wash my hands of this thread...

The last thing I will say is...

In the time we've all been debating this, you could have finished the modifications and have been done with this whole shebang...

Good Luck, Have Fun, Enjoy Life

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:14 am
by Bill H
It will interesting to see how many times this developer has to get fired by a client before he learns, but he probably won't tell us.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:30 am
by superdezign
Bill H wrote:It will interesting to see how many times this developer has to get fired by a client before he learns, but he probably won't tell us.
That was... unnecessary instigation. :?