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It's time for java to DIE

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:18 am
by yacahuma
I move a lot. The following is very common. I talk to the manager of X place. He is very proud.

manager: "Yes, our platform runs on J2EE, struts or spring, hibernate and we use some XML, yada, yada, yada. "
me: How many user do you have?"
manager: "About a 100".
me: "Can I see the application?"
Then he shows me a couple of edit, update and search windows.

Give me a freaking break!!!! You don't need all that crap. What happened to KISS?

I use to work for a newspaper. I developed a php classifieds application it was connected to Sybase. There was absolutely nothing special about it. No mem cache or any special tweaks. It was even running on Windows Server as CGI. Still the application handled millions of request each month and we never had a single problem.

I am still waiting to see a place that actually need all that junk running. I am not saying the place does not exists. But maybe it is as rare as a Logness Monster sighting.

Not every problem needs a nuclear weapon to be solved. Unless you have to kill a 200 ton whale, 1 single shot pistol will do the trick.

If companies start to recognize this, there will be more job opportunities for php developers and most importantly php will be viewed as a very strong business solution. Maybe Zend could do a better job to improve PHP' s business image.

Many companies believe that the only real solution out there is Java(And all the stuff behind it). By just looking at monster.com you can see this is true.

I stand by PHP. It has never let me down. Now I am playing with php-gtk for desktop multi-platform development. What else can you ask for??

What are your thoughts?

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:33 am
by feyd
I'm perfectly happy with Java. — not on as the web server, typically, but that has less to do with the language and more to do with how the servers are managed/updated.

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:03 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Java has its place. PHP has its place. When used properly and in the proper context then they both serve their purposes very well. It is up to the developer to decide the correct course when pushing code. It is not really up to us as developer to complain about it afterward.

Just my $0.02

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:57 pm
by superdezign
After using Java, PHP feels like it's on training wheels to me. :P
I like Java, and I like PHP.

The reason that PHP as a job skill isn't quite where Java is is that Java exists both online and offline, and PHP is free, open source, and technically young. They've been teaching Java in schools for a while now and it's becoming a standard, but that's because it's pure OOP (basically). OO practices are important as a developer in today's world, and Java is a good place to learn it, in my opinion.

I'll leave it at that before I start ranting as much as the OP. :P

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:05 am
by Jenk
After using Smalltalk, Java feels like a Straight-jacket :P

Horses for courses.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:00 pm
by alex.barylski
Oh yea...welll...once you feel the power and flexibility of C++ all other OOP languages feel like childs play. :P

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:20 pm
by Weirdan
Hockey wrote:Oh yea...welll...once you feel the power and flexibility of C++ all other OOP languages feel like childs play. :P
Actually not

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:06 pm
by alex.barylski
Weirdan wrote:
Hockey wrote:Oh yea...welll...once you feel the power and flexibility of C++ all other OOP languages feel like childs play. :P
Actually not
Wow. Thats a great counter-argument. :P

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:27 pm
by John Cartwright
Hockey wrote:
Weirdan wrote:
Hockey wrote:Oh yea...welll...once you feel the power and flexibility of C++ all other OOP languages feel like childs play. :P
Actually not
Wow. Thats a great counter-argument. :P
I don't think saying all other languages OOP model are childsplay is an argument to begin with.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:53 pm
by alex.barylski
Jcart wrote:
Hockey wrote:
Weirdan wrote: Actually not
Wow. Thats a great counter-argument. :P
I don't think saying all other languages OOP model are childsplay is an argument to begin with.
Obviously none are childsplay...that was a joke. But anything you can do in language X you can do in C++ but the same cannot be said in the reverse direction...so that would lead to believe one is indeed more powerful/flexible than the others, which is what I was hinting at.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:46 pm
by Weirdan
But anything you can do in language X you can do in C++
That's not an argument, either. Everything you can do in any Turing-complete language X you can do in any other Turing-complete language Y. It's only a matter of how much efforts would be needed (and C++ is not the best by that measure, you know). That's why specialized languages exist - if C++ was a silver bullet everyone would code in C++ only... what are you doing on a php forum, huh? =)

Besides, OOP is not an end-of-all - alternative programming paradigms exist. Functional programming, for example (it's not the same as procedural programming).

You say C++ has the most powerful OOP model? I'd like to see native C++ syntax for metaclasses, please.

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:49 pm
by alex.barylski
Weirdan wrote:
But anything you can do in language X you can do in C++
That's not an argument, either. Everything you can do in any Turing-complete language X you can do in any other Turing-complete language Y. It's only a matter of how much efforts would be needed (and C++ is not the best by that measure, you know). That's why specialized languages exist - if C++ was a silver bullet everyone would code in C++ only... what are you doing on a php forum, huh? =)

Besides, OOP is not an end-of-all - alternative programming paradigms exist. Functional programming, for example (it's not the same as procedural programming).

You say C++ has the most powerful OOP model? I'd like to see native C++ syntax for metaclasses, please.
I had a much longer drawn out reply but I need to get work done and stop playing on DevNet. :P