how to be a freelancer

Ye' old general discussion board. Basically, for everything that isn't covered elsewhere. Come here to shoot the breeze, shoot your mouth off, or whatever suits your fancy.
This forum is not for asking programming related questions.

Moderator: General Moderators

devendra-m
Forum Contributor
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:16 am

how to be a freelancer

Post by devendra-m »

Inspite of getting lots of knowledge of php and oracle. I am not being able to get better paid jobs
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by alex.barylski »

Quit while your ahead. :P

In all honesty, freelancing is getting harder and harder...There is more competition than ever and many small/medium companies that once jumped on the outsource bandwagon have found it more practical (if not cost effective) to actually keep things in house. Freelancing is also a PITA for the developer. In my experience, because you are not there in person they often require you to work longer hours and make ridiculous requests. There are no benefits to freelancing except the stay at home part, but that comes at the cost, your boss will likely expect you to work even on "sick" days because you are at home and can work from your bed, doesn't mean you should.

Its sketchy and I've personally witnessed a decline in freelance positions on places like Monster, Workopolis or any business listing, forum, etc...I think it was a fad that worked for some and burnt many-many more. At best I would suggest landing a "real" job somewhere local, working there for a year, gradually earning trust, then asking to stay at home one day a week, then 2 and so on...

My biggest hurdle while working freelance was time difference. Companies in Australia are 12 hours a head of me and often they would just be starting their day as I was calling it quits. This usually resulted in my having to stay online for an extra 2-3 hours so we could go over what was needed the following day. I was already online, but at that point I wanted to work on my own little projects, not theres...

Seek a lawyer and get some concrete work agreements worked out, and figure out a way to keep accurate logs of everything you did and done. Use something SVN and sloccount to track "something" to show your bosses, especially if you work on individual projects (no team involved)...

If your looking for small <span style='color:blue' title='I'm naughty, are you naughty?'>smurf</span> ant jobs...find a designer to partner with and start cranking out web sites with custom functionality...

Hope this helps :)
User avatar
Chris Corbyn
Breakbeat Nuttzer
Posts: 13098
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Chris Corbyn »

I wouldn't be so negative as Hockey in deterring you from going down the freelance route but I will say it didn't work for me. Why? Because I'm far too lazy to actually go and look for the work ;) And secondly because the jobs I were getting were "fix this unfinished code for me please" type jobs which cause you to go bald at 24 years old. Freelancing pulls in HUGE amounts of money for some people if you can motivate yourself to get out there (in person) and promote what you can do for people.

Since working for companies, in an office, with other developers I've been far happier. It's nice "going home" from work at the end of the day and it's nice having the social atmosphere of like-minded people around you in the office. I don't have to worry where my next wage is coming from neither.

Do you have a portfolio? Any open-source projects? Any sort of resume/web-presence? How are you trying to find work?
matthijs
DevNet Master
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:57 pm

Post by matthijs »

One thing: get to know people. The right people.

I have a feeling that in this business it's more about who you know and who knows (about) you then what your skills are. For me, 99% of the work I get is through referrals. It makes it also a lot easier. Because when someone is sent to you by someone else, telling "I know this nice guy, a reliable and good developer", you're already halfway getting the job. That's so much easier then putting your add in between 100 others or having to compete in price with some cheap guys in India or something.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by alex.barylski »

I wasn't trying to be negative so much as I was being realistic...

Yes, you can make "some" money ( I wouldn't say huge - not as an individual anyways) in freelance...you can even save yourself some time and money and go through various freelancing web sites...be prepared to loose more than you gain though, as there are a handful of existing development teams which will likely beat you to every offer in both time and cost.

Unless your in India or Eastern Europe, it's difficult to compete with 10USD per hour and actually complete the project. Although, as these poor countries continue to improve, I have noticed many of the best (at least well known) developers demand about the same price I would charge for freelance work, so that advantage is slowly slipping away and will likely continue to do so.

If you are passionate about software development and want to practice the latest and greatest techniques...good luck. Freelance work will nto accomodate you. People don't care about software quality, they only want usability quality. Like you said, most jobs are "fix this broken script for me please" type jobs. If your lucky enough to land a full contract (start to finish) your under so much pressure to "just get something done so your client can see it" it's next to impossible to factor in TDD or any kind of forethought.

I wasn't trying to sound negative, just expounding my experiences is all. :P

I love workign from home. I hate the time wasted driving to work or feeling pressured to wake up at 8AM *everyday*

I have tried both camps repeatedly (full time and freelance) and I guess both have ups and downs (matter of opinion) but it's IMHO that a full time position is far better, especially for someone just entering the industry. Too many caveats when you don't yet understand how the busniess works.
User avatar
Chris Corbyn
Breakbeat Nuttzer
Posts: 13098
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Chris Corbyn »

Hockey wrote:I love workign from home. I hate the time wasted driving to work or feeling pressured to wake up at 8AM *everyday*
You think 8AM is early? 8O Heck I get out of bed at 8AM on a sunday! Earlier if I'm going for a surf. Try 6 or earlier on weekdays :P
User avatar
Benjamin
Site Administrator
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 10:24 pm

Post by Benjamin »

There is an astounding amount of money changing hands on a daily basis. It's just a matter of getting out there and putting yourself in the flow. Do anything better than someone else and you will get rich. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something, no matter who it is.
User avatar
Kieran Huggins
DevNet Master
Posts: 3635
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Kieran Huggins »

My roommate gets up at 5:30 to go to work... which is usually my queue to get to bed.

Freelance FTW!
User avatar
RobertGonzalez
Site Administrator
Posts: 14293
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:04 pm
Location: Fremont, CA, USA

Post by RobertGonzalez »

Freelancing can work if you work it. It will require a bit of time developing clients/contacts, preferably some that know people. People that get good service tend to tell their friends that need that same service where they got there's from, especially if it is good.

Don't get down on yourself. It can work for you. Just put as much effort into building your freelance "business" as you would working a regular job.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by alex.barylski »

I'm not a morning person...at best I can wake at 9ish or 10ish...but I also don't fall asleep until 3 or 5AM - I need some sleep. I'm a hardcore insomniac so working regular hours is difficult for me
User avatar
JayBird
Admin
Posts: 4524
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:02 am
Location: York, UK
Contact:

Post by JayBird »

Hockey wrote:I'm not a morning person...at best I can wake at 9ish or 10ish...but I also don't fall asleep until 3 or 5AM - I need some sleep. I'm a hardcore insomniac so working regular hours is difficult for me

awww...you poor little thing :P
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Post by alex.barylski »

JayBird wrote:
Hockey wrote:I'm not a morning person...at best I can wake at 9ish or 10ish...but I also don't fall asleep until 3 or 5AM - I need some sleep. I'm a hardcore insomniac so working regular hours is difficult for me

awww...you poor little thing :P
Yea I know... :D

I'm actually taking some pill (tamazepam?) to help me fall asleep at night...in the last 2 years my sleeping patterns have just gone bonkers I find it impossible to shut my brain off at night...the cog wheels just keep spinning...sometimes not even computer related but the weirdest things keep me awake...like contemplating time travel to how Barbie would look as a red head... :P

Extreme Insomnia is really annoying...I don't think I'll ever be a 9-5 kind of person.
User avatar
Jenk
DevNet Master
Posts: 3587
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:24 am
Location: London

Post by Jenk »

Chris Corbyn wrote:Since working for companies, in an office, with other developers I've been far happier. It's nice "going home" from work at the end of the day and it's nice having the social atmosphere of like-minded people around you in the office. I don't have to worry where my next wage is coming from neither.
Quite the same for me. Home is home, work is work. :)
User avatar
superdezign
DevNet Master
Posts: 4135
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:06 pm

Post by superdezign »

Chris Corbyn wrote:Because I'm far too lazy to actually go and look for the work ;)
I second that, completely.
If only there were an easier way... :P
deleet
Forum Commoner
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:05 am

Post by deleet »

I was quite interested in the discussion since I have a very similar problem as well.

I'm from Western Europe and, to be completely honest, I don't see myself getting a local job because people here take advantage. Unemployment is a really big problem and if you don't work that extra weekend and put in your best effort every single day you will get replaced. Also the pay is quite terrible compared to other countries (a 2 year experienced PHP developer earns around $900 a month).

I like to think I'm a somewhat experienced developer (I've been learning and working for about 2 and a half years now) and I'm currently trying to find some freelance jobs or short-term contracts. The question is, where to look?

No, Scriptlance / E-Lance / WhateverLance sites are just wrong: Welcome to cheap India Online, $10 / hour.

I completely and utterly refuse to work for people who, as you said before, just want you to "fix this broken script for me please" because it ends up being a waste of my time, extremely frustrating and never pays off. Dealing with someone's horrible code is, in my opinion, the worst task you could ask a developer to do.

I also don't want to give people the sloppiest code I can create just because they want it done in 30 hours, are paying me $300 total and demand to see progress after 2 hours. It makes me feel like I'm the worst 'tool' for the job and they're just trying to get the most of it.

I don't have much to show unfortunately due to a recent hard drive failure (yes, *bonk* me in the head please, I never did backups before, I know now...) and most of the 'big' websites I've worked on are now off line (and the others I'm sort of ashamed to show, terrible designs / interfaces).

I've considered a lot of options, even moving to the UK where working as a developer seems a bit more appealing but that's unlikely to happen.

So to everyone that do freelance / short-term contracts, how would you bounce back up and into the market again?

EDIT: Typing, small corrections.
Post Reply