School for programming - class recommendations
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School for programming - class recommendations
I have come to the point in my programming career that my current math (geometry, algebra, etc), computer (networking, system administration, graphic design, typography, etc.), and even english skills just aren't cutting it. I have decided to go back to school. I would like to take classes to improve many of my web-development-related skills. I'd like to improve my math skills so that I can write and understand more complex programs.
For example, I was reading about a GIS branch of the django framework and I noticed that I didn't understand ANY of the math involved. I have always been exceptionally good at math, but unfortunately I have forgotten a good portion of the math I learned in school.
I can figure out on my own what classes to take to improve my English skills (I want to learn to be a better public speaker and more interesting copy writer so that I can write a more interesting blog, and possibly even start teaching local sessions for web development). The part I need advice for is the programming stuff.
I guess what I want to know is... those of you who went to school to learn about programming... what did you take? What do you recommend? What types of math classes do I need to be a better programmer? Are there any actual programming classes you can recommend?
EDIT - Also I should mention that I didn't try very hard in school. To be honest, I barely graduated, so unfortunately my options as far as what schools I can get into are pretty limited. With that in mind, are there any schools you can recommend?
For example, I was reading about a GIS branch of the django framework and I noticed that I didn't understand ANY of the math involved. I have always been exceptionally good at math, but unfortunately I have forgotten a good portion of the math I learned in school.
I can figure out on my own what classes to take to improve my English skills (I want to learn to be a better public speaker and more interesting copy writer so that I can write a more interesting blog, and possibly even start teaching local sessions for web development). The part I need advice for is the programming stuff.
I guess what I want to know is... those of you who went to school to learn about programming... what did you take? What do you recommend? What types of math classes do I need to be a better programmer? Are there any actual programming classes you can recommend?
EDIT - Also I should mention that I didn't try very hard in school. To be honest, I barely graduated, so unfortunately my options as far as what schools I can get into are pretty limited. With that in mind, are there any schools you can recommend?
- Kieran Huggins
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
I'd actually recommend NOT going to school - you're a good programmer, you just need to find a shop where you learn while you work. If you're not learning where you are now, look for something new. The Internet + actual experience = the best education you could hope for.
As for writing & speaking: just do it. You'll learn a lot more from that than you would in a classroom.
As for writing & speaking: just do it. You'll learn a lot more from that than you would in a classroom.
Re: School for programming - class recommendations
I always kind of thought that too, but the thing is there is nobody to teach me geometry at my work. As far as writing and public speaking go, I really feel that I would learn a lot more in a classroom environment. Also, I am not 100% sure that I want to be a programmer for my entire life. I know I love programming, but I don't know that it's all I want to do. I kind of thought that school would help me figure out what I want with my life. I recently found out that I really enjoy working with kids when I started coaching 3rd-8th grade wrestling (I wrestled from 4th grade all the way through high school). I would have never known how much I enjoy that had I not tried something other than my job.
- Maugrim_The_Reaper
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Take evening classes (or morning classes if possible) for Math. Unlike everything else it's the one subject I've always learned better in a classroom. I'd also suggest putting it to practical use - set yourself some programming task requiring Geometry knowledge and bang at it for a while. You'll likely mess up a lot, but if the classes get you level of knowledge up the extra puzzling out of things give you some memorable experience.
As for programming, can't help here. I'm largely self-taught myself and surprise, surprise have not had a formal education in programming. I did my university degree in Commerce and had some side classes in Physics.
As for English - you learn best by two things. Practice. Probably it works better in a class environment, but if I needed to refresh my French I'd probably just buy a book, and read/translate until it sunk in. Not the finest approach, but I probably wouldn't have the time for classes. Since I'm an avid reader, that approach would likely be more effective with me.
As for programming, can't help here. I'm largely self-taught myself and surprise, surprise have not had a formal education in programming. I did my university degree in Commerce and had some side classes in Physics.
As for English - you learn best by two things. Practice. Probably it works better in a class environment, but if I needed to refresh my French I'd probably just buy a book, and read/translate until it sunk in. Not the finest approach, but I probably wouldn't have the time for classes. Since I'm an avid reader, that approach would likely be more effective with me.
Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Well like you guys I've always relied on books and taught myself just about everything I know, but like I said I've come to the point that I need something more than that. I am a smart guy, but I don't think I'm smart enough to teach myself geometry and other advanced math. Maugrim... the idea about doing a project involving math is a great idea. I think I'll write an app that uses that GIS branch I mentioned. That would be a really cool way to brush up on my geometry skills. Thanks. 
- John Cartwright
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Let me know if you need some help.. I am majoring in Geographic Information Systems so I may be able to contribute.. plus I can show my fellow classmatesThe Ninja Space Goat wrote:Well like you guys I've always relied on books and taught myself just about everything I know, but like I said I've come to the point that I need something more than that. I am a smart guy, but I don't think I'm smart enough to teach myself geometry and other advanced math. Maugrim... the idea about doing a project involving math is a great idea. I think I'll write an app that uses that GIS branch I mentioned. That would be a really cool way to brush up on my geometry skills. Thanks.
Re: School for programming - class recommendations
I really don't see where you will need more than basic math... especially in PHP.
I'm making my B.A in Comp. Sci. right now (don't know if I'm gonna finish it but w/e)... Most of the classes I have are math and few are about programming. Now let me tell you something... this is all crap... big crap. None of these classes will make you a better programmer... actually, not only they won't make you a better programmer, but I doubt they will make any programmer out of you at all. The only reason I, and everybody else needs this degree is to get accepted to different kinds of jobs and to get a higher salary. Now if PHP is what we are talking about, take all the things that I've said, and wrap them with <strong> then go and put it on the wall in your room
I'm making my B.A in Comp. Sci. right now (don't know if I'm gonna finish it but w/e)... Most of the classes I have are math and few are about programming. Now let me tell you something... this is all crap... big crap. None of these classes will make you a better programmer... actually, not only they won't make you a better programmer, but I doubt they will make any programmer out of you at all. The only reason I, and everybody else needs this degree is to get accepted to different kinds of jobs and to get a higher salary. Now if PHP is what we are talking about, take all the things that I've said, and wrap them with <strong> then go and put it on the wall in your room
- Kieran Huggins
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Who said I was talking about PHP?I really don't see where you will need more than basic math... especially in PHP.
There are most definitely programs I could never write with my current set of math skills. I know that for a fact because there have been many instances where I could not complete a project because of my lack of math skills. Like I said... I'm not so interested in learning programming from school. I want to learn more math so that I can apply it to programming. I just want to be the very best I can be.
I'm surprised so many folks want to talk me out of going to school LOL. Funny thing is I don't really care about getting a degree. I just want the knowledge. Tell me this... how do you practice public speaking from home?
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alex.barylski
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
I think furthering your education in anyway is always a good thing...but doing it formally isn't always the best way. Like you, I didn't try hard in school and ended up dropping out by 10th grade - but I get my grade 12 computer science and physics credits.
I have always been fascinated with flying and flight simulator 4 is what actually *really* got me into programming as a kid. Programming automated flight planners, etc require some basic math skills and can actually get you involved with some complex math (calculating great circles). In my experience, you need only a basic understanding of algebra/trig to write/convert most equations into source code.
If your looking to actually understand how the equations work...I think you'll be disappointed to discover that most math teachers cannot actually explain how or why an equation works. They basically just memorize the principles and apply them to problems. In this way, they are more like car mechanics than car engineers. You'd be better off speaking to a university prof, but unless your enrolled in the University, you'll have a hard time getting their attention.
Buying good math textbooks is actuallly quite a challenge. I have about a dozen which are garbage. I eventually ended up going back to highschool and "borrowing" a few of the texts from them.
I personally find that history will often offer unique insight in answering my "how and why" questions - so a book like "Mathemtaics for the millions" was excellent. I'd highly recommend it for anyone interested in math.
In anycase, to answer your question (IMHO) you really only need a gr. 12 level of understanding of math and physics to work on most projects. So maybe a night course in the two would work. Geometry is never something I excelled at but most projects rely more on Physics, Calculus and Trig rather than Geometry.
As for becoming a public speaker. I shouldn't really offer any advice cause I know I'd bomb in front of a crowd...but I have taken courses such as Toast Masters - perhaps you could lookup a local group and join them. Public Speaking is basically what they try and teach you. Being a better writer/copywriter is just practice. Ever notice how girls usually excel at English during high school while most guys just don't get it? It's because girls read more (at least in my generation they seemed too) books by acclaimed authors like Stephen King as opposed to Sports Sections by mediocre authors. Read more and perhaps more importantly write more - post articles to various article sources. Programmers are pedantic about details, I'm sure someone will suggest/correct any mistakes they feel you've made.
Good luck and have fun!!!
I have always been fascinated with flying and flight simulator 4 is what actually *really* got me into programming as a kid. Programming automated flight planners, etc require some basic math skills and can actually get you involved with some complex math (calculating great circles). In my experience, you need only a basic understanding of algebra/trig to write/convert most equations into source code.
If your looking to actually understand how the equations work...I think you'll be disappointed to discover that most math teachers cannot actually explain how or why an equation works. They basically just memorize the principles and apply them to problems. In this way, they are more like car mechanics than car engineers. You'd be better off speaking to a university prof, but unless your enrolled in the University, you'll have a hard time getting their attention.
Buying good math textbooks is actuallly quite a challenge. I have about a dozen which are garbage. I eventually ended up going back to highschool and "borrowing" a few of the texts from them.
In anycase, to answer your question (IMHO) you really only need a gr. 12 level of understanding of math and physics to work on most projects. So maybe a night course in the two would work. Geometry is never something I excelled at but most projects rely more on Physics, Calculus and Trig rather than Geometry.
As for becoming a public speaker. I shouldn't really offer any advice cause I know I'd bomb in front of a crowd...but I have taken courses such as Toast Masters - perhaps you could lookup a local group and join them. Public Speaking is basically what they try and teach you. Being a better writer/copywriter is just practice. Ever notice how girls usually excel at English during high school while most guys just don't get it? It's because girls read more (at least in my generation they seemed too) books by acclaimed authors like Stephen King as opposed to Sports Sections by mediocre authors. Read more and perhaps more importantly write more - post articles to various article sources. Programmers are pedantic about details, I'm sure someone will suggest/correct any mistakes they feel you've made.
Good luck and have fun!!!
- Kieran Huggins
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
As for public speaking: go to BarCamp! You'll quickly get used to getting up and talking to a group of people you don't know most of. Seriously.
Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Honestly I'm already pretty good at public speaking. I'm a youth wrestling coach, so I have to speak in front of a room-full of adolescents every day, but I want to be REALLY good. 
I guess I just want to be well rounded. Not just good at ONE thing.
I guess I just want to be well rounded. Not just good at ONE thing.
- Christopher
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Re: School for programming - class recommendations
Hey Luke, have you looked into the many online courses on the web. Many are free and there are some incredible lectures and courses by prestigious universities available.
(#10850)
Re: School for programming - class recommendations
I think I'd still recommend looking for a problem to solve, then solve by your own means, rather than apply for courses.
But horses for courses (no pun/insult intended :p), you may find it much more beneficial than I would
But horses for courses (no pun/insult intended :p), you may find it much more beneficial than I would