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Proof of experience

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:50 am
by Ollie Saunders
Hi Folks,

I'm currently trying to get a work permit for Canada at the moment. Having made my original application I've just this morning received a letter stating, among other things, that I must provide "Documents/information [in order to provide]...proof of 2 years experience with client/server applications" this relates to a job title of "Software products developer"

Baring in mind that this system was probably devised by somebody irrelevant from the IT industry itself, what do you suggest this means? What is it referring to? And what would be considered appropriate as proof of experience?

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:55 am
by Chris Corbyn
Job references maybe? I assume "experience" relates to actual jobs in the industry. This is probably something you should be asking them about ;)

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:09 am
by Ollie Saunders
This is probably something you should be asking them about
You can't communicate with them very easily, short of going there in person where you have to wait in line and go through security before waiting in another line. When I went last time the woman said she didn't know how this was assessed.
Job references maybe? I assume "experience" relates to actual jobs in the industry.
Yeah I guess I should have had dates put on my job reference. My second year of experience comes from working freelance but I think I might be able to use invoices and tax returns etc. to prove that was what I was doing.

But what about the client/server bit, maybe I don't need to be concerned with that. I'm thinking I could just say that the web is inherently client/server based in a cover letter.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:56 am
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
- Invoices showing your name and work performed
- Annual tax summary issued by your employer
- References showing date range of the employment
- Letter from a future employer in Canada?

The problem here is one of detailed records. You may very well need to request your previous employer re-issue the reference with a date range and a declaration of your experience type. I would assume invoices for freelancing should be sufficient.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:28 am
by alex.barylski
Maugrim_The_Reaper wrote:- Invoices showing your name and work performed
- Annual tax summary issued by your employer
- References showing date range of the employment
- Letter from a future employer in Canada?

The problem here is one of detailed records. You may very well need to request your previous employer re-issue the reference with a date range and a declaration of your experience type. I would assume invoices for freelancing should be sufficient.
I would guess that is probably the most important point...of all the people I know who move here for jobs...it seems the most expediant way is to get your employer to request to have you move here...

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:35 am
by Ollie Saunders
Letter from new employer, is already done. The only bit I'm confused about is "experience with client/server applications". What does that mean? For example, would some examples of PHP and JS source code prove that?

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:16 pm
by alex.barylski
Client-server is really just a moniker which encapsulates a broard range of applications and or their protocols:

1) Distributed computing
2) Request-Response
3) P2P

Distributed computing, like the @Home projects use the client-server architecture in a way which is somewhat backwards to traditional client-server. They have a central server, but each of the nodes or clients are actually responsible for doing the number crunching. Servers are/were traditionally the ones responsible for carrying out the mega load - similar to web applications.

In reverse to the above, request-response (HTTP) the client is typically already implemented for you. The server-side is what you are responsible for. Most PHP developers would call themselves server-side developers and perhaps client-server if you had JS experience. Sure it qualifies as client-server programming but thanks to the protocol, lots of the messy details are handled for you at the expense of some flexibility perhaps.

P2P is unique in that a client can be a server and visa versa. I am not terribly familiar with that protocol but I would assume there is indeed a central server sitting somewhere which does little more than keep track of currently connected nodes. Using this certal service, other nodes can lookup other nodes and determine if they are sharing files or wishing to download files which are stored on itself.

The point is, client-server "can" be interpreted in many ways, so yes, although PHP is usually strictly server side...and the details of connecting to the client are hidden from it still qualifies as a client-server application.

You should probably ask them what they mean by client-server "exactly". Basically whenever you have a client AND a server your doing client-server. If it's a PHP job, than I would assume the protocol of choice would be HTTP. :P

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:11 pm
by Ollie Saunders
Thanks Hockey, I think you distilled, very nicely, what had been rattling around in my head, like a loose monkey, for a while

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:56 pm
by Kieran Huggins
We'll smuggle you in if we have to!

Seriously though, I think you're a little too worried. You've been writing "client server applications" ever since you started with PHP. I'm sure they just want some past invoices to prove you've done it professionally.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:10 pm
by Ollie Saunders
Seriously though, I think you're a little too worried.
I don't pressume to know how they operate. Faced with an ambiguous request I thought it best to get a few opinions.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:21 pm
by Kieran Huggins
Definitely! I'm not anticipating problems, but it's good to be prepared.

On that note, the LPC and I have already drawn up plans for your kidnapping should the visa fail for some reason. We're buying airline uniforms and everything! There just *might* be pictures. Prepare thyself.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:27 pm
by Ollie Saunders
Bah! It's not going to fail.
On that note, the LPC and I have already drawn up plans for your kidnapping should the visa fail for some reason. We're buying airline uniforms and everything! There just *might* be pictures. Prepare thyself!
See, they're all mad in Canada! Yay!

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:46 pm
by Benjamin
Hell they would probably be satisfied with a good resume or list of sites you have worked on.

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:50 pm
by Weirdan
Hockey wrote: I would assume there is indeed a central server sitting somewhere which does little more than keep track of currently connected nodes.
It's not necessary true, there are networks where it's enough to know a single node address to join the network, e.g Kademlia, Freenet, etc. Once you connected, your host can be discovered by other nodes, without use of any central server. Kademlia, for example, is essentially a distributed database of host addresses and keyword entries (which is used by e2dk clients to search for files and hosts they are located at).

Re: Proof of experience

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:32 pm
by alex.barylski
Weirdan wrote:
Hockey wrote: I would assume there is indeed a central server sitting somewhere which does little more than keep track of currently connected nodes.
It's not necessary true, there are networks where it's enough to know a single node address to join the network, e.g Kademlia, Freenet, etc. Once you connected, your host can be discovered by other nodes, without use of any central server. Kademlia, for example, is essentially a distributed database of host addresses and keyword entries (which is used by e2dk clients to search for files and hosts they are located at).
Another example of what is client-server development... 8)