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Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:39 pm
by jwoot
So, I need help answering a super high level question. One that certainly requires much more supporting information in order to answer in a completely effectual manner. However, I would just like to get a general sense concerning feasibility and level of effort. Can you please (not laugh) and give me some quick feedback? Thanks!

background:
I have this php application (recruiting software script). That php application has a built in form generator that drives the key site functions (post resume, post job, register, search jobs, search resumes etc.). The forms are functional. They have the basic field elements. They are not, however, attractive. They are devoid of any "pretty form" attributes or advanced features. So, I began investigating alternative form tools. I settled on MachForms from AppNitro. I love it..exactly what I wanted. Ajax features, validations, you name it.

challenge:
If I had pixy dust I would sprinkle it and magically the old form utility/script would be gone and inserted would be MachForms. What I want to determine..before attempting to articulate to my php developer is...how challenging is such a task? Is it foolish, rather straightforward or just dumb? I sorta get it conceptually but I know the devil is in the details and the rubber hits the road with the code.

So, rip and replace..can it be done without rewriting the whole darn app? BTW--I do have the source code for the php script. Or, is there something more benign that rip/replace that will do the trick?

Thank you, thank you for indulging my amorphous query.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:17 am
by alex.barylski
The word difficult is so subjective. :P

What one developer thinks is easy, might be "easy" to him or her but take a week and a half, whereas another developer will say difficult and only take a day - I always assume difficult to avoid surprises.

Second, any developer will eventually reach the desired results, but in what time?

The short answer is, it is impossible to estimate to any degree of accuracy without seeing the codebase of both products. :P

I'm not clear on what your trying to do...port the old data into the new application?

Does MachForm have any kind of import feature??? The easiest route would be to have your developer convert the old data into the import format required by MachForms - which might not import everything but it's a start.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:23 am
by Kieran Huggins
jwoot wrote:the devil is in the details
Truer words and all that. Just off the top of my head, ajax validation will require more server side code, and that in a format that plays nicely with MachForms. Also, you're giving your developer YAL (yet another library) to learn and potentially misuse.

It would be way easier to sex up your current forms with javascript & CSS - that way all the modifications can be done on top of what you currently use.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:48 am
by pickle
If all you want is to make your forms pretty & have some validation, integrating a whole other program seems like overkill. Once your programmer figures out where the display logic is (the part of the program that actually generates what is seen), it should be pretty trivial to spruce up the appearance with some CSS.

As for form validation - if the existing app doesn't have any, then it might take some effort to put it in. If I had to guess though, I'd say it would be less work than integrating yet another library.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:08 pm
by Chris Corbyn
What they said ;) Adding the presentation ehancements should be easy (provided the code is not a spaghetti monster!). Adding the validation will certainly take more thinking about, though to what extent it's hard to say without knowing the codebase.

There are two categories of freelance jobs which make me cringe inside:

1. Finish my partly finished project for me. I got a bit stuck, but most of it is already done...
2. I bought this app which does almost what I need, but I need it modifying to do X, Y and Z.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:33 pm
by califdon
Amen!

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:11 pm
by Ollie Saunders
I agree with Chris, Pickle and Kieran.

Don't forget that there is also design and decision making to be done which is on top of the time spent doing the implementation. No use spending time on the wrong thing. My ole senses are tingling and I'm guessing what you're really after is a complete user interface overhaul? If you are thinking along those lines make sure that usability testing is involved early on in the process. There is a big overlap between visual design and usability so perhaps learn about or get someone familiar with all the issues of web usability.

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Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:45 am
by Kieran Huggins
I agree with ole, and by proxy: myself.

Can we praise by reference in PHP3? I obviously went with the callback in this instance.

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:26 am
by alex.barylski
1. Finish my partly finished project for me. I got a bit stuck, but most of it is already done...
2. I bought this app which does almost what I need, but I need it modifying to do X, Y and Z.
Ditto...

Good too see everyone else feels the same...and it's not just me. :P

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:52 pm
by jwoot
You guys provided exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for..so, thanks for looking past the dearth of detail and still coming up with sound feedback. Glad to see the consensus too. I posed this same query to the script author and he shared your sentiments. The developers I am using in India have been great but mostly just operating in the mode of "whatever you want...we will do..just tell us". Which is less than optimal given my naivete.

So, I guess my guidance to the developers will be....
Look at the existing form engine and presentation layer....then compare with what's available through MachForms...then fill the gaps by editing, modifying, adding code to the existing applications codebase.

That sound about right?

Take care and thanks again!

Re: Dumb & frustrated business guy with a php question

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:17 pm
by Ollie Saunders
I'm still operating on suspicions here.
What exactly do you want changed? In what way is your application not performing?