Credible email or Spam?

Ye' old general discussion board. Basically, for everything that isn't covered elsewhere. Come here to shoot the breeze, shoot your mouth off, or whatever suits your fancy.
This forum is not for asking programming related questions.

Moderator: General Moderators

Post Reply
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

I asked this question in several business forums and most had no problem with it, any that did, didn't make any fuss, so I assume it's a respectable way of doings things.

I'd like a programmer community opinion:

I have compiled a list of several thousand businesses, web sites, phone numbers, category, emails.

My product pricing does not justify making phone calls to each of these businesses -- unless they are a *hot* prospect. I am think of writing them each an individualized email (not just using placeholders) but making a remark about there web site which is unique to them -- this is to indicate that the email is genuine and not spam.

The idea is to basically ask them if they would be interested in receiving additional marketing material or setup a presentation/webinar and maybe even close the sale right there and then. Alternatively, if they ignore the email, I won't contact them via email -- next would be a follow up call, etc...

It's either this or I build a generic flyer and send it out to each business via snail mail -- which would cost me more. :(

Each of these businesses have been carefully screened/filtered and personally selected by me and I am quite confident they could use my services/products -- so really it's a matter of just letting them know what I am offering, like a press release but individualized. :)

Opinions?
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

Ironically, this just popped up in my inbox. :P

http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/h ... p?id=47559
matthijs
DevNet Master
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:57 pm

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by matthijs »

I think there's nothing wrong with sending an email, as long as you got the email addresses in a normal, legal way. If a company has it's contact info listed (including email), you should be allowed to contact them, isn't it?

It's a different story if you buy a list of emails from someone else.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

It's a different story if you buy a list of emails from someone else.
Oddly...I've always failed to see it this way. I guess I've always seen bulk emailing without prior consent as what constitues spam. I have collected the emails manually, not purchased them.

Cheers :)
matthijs
DevNet Master
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:57 pm

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by matthijs »

Yeah you are right. Bulk mailing without people's consent is spam. But if you send someone a personal email after you find their email address on their site, that's not spam.

But I guess there's a grey area. What is "personalized"? And what is finding someone's contact info? Going to their website and finding the contact page, using a bot to scrape thousands of email addresses? :)
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

But I guess there's a grey area. What is "personalized"? And what is finding someone's contact info? Going to their website and finding the contact page, using a bot to scrape thousands of email addresses?
Grey area....yes... :(

I have manually collected the email addresses. They are potential prospects who I know would benefit from my service/product.

Certainly more people are likely to delete the email if it seems spammish. So I thought about sending the email and including details which only a human might recognize -- comment on a particular photo, etc.

Also, the first email, is more about breaking the ice. Just letting them know that I'm in business and this is what I offer. Ideally I would send them out in bulk using my program, because I have integrated tracking, so I could monitor who opens where, when, why, etc.

Those who want more information can ask for it and those who don't -- never get contacted again. :)

Now I'm second guessing myself. :P
User avatar
Bill H
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:16 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by Bill H »

I put my email on my website for the purpose of allowing people to contact me with respect to purchase my products. I got so many from people wanting to sell me things that I took my email off my site and used a form instead. I still get some people using the form to sell me things.

Anyone using email that I did not request and offering me anything for free or for sale is, in my book, a spammer regardless or the quantity sent of the method used.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

Anyone using email that I did not request and offering me anything for free or for sale is, in my book, a spammer regardless or the quantity sent of the method used
So what is the difference, for you then, between someone calling you on the phone, sending a flyer or emailing you?

Spam for me, has always been email of little or no interest to me. <span style='color:red;text-decoration:blink' title='Alert a moderator!'>grilled spam</span>, etc. What I am offering, is a specialized service for a vertical market which has been well researched. I guess that is the distinction I make.

While I agree that email is a bad platform to sell something on initially it is also just an alternative medium, which happens to be cost effective. :)

Direct selling is the most effective, which is why I am considering that approach, as opposed to mass advertising -- which many people are equally zealous about stopping (adblockers, etc).

This is where my own moral dilema comes in. My clients need to find out about me, otherwise I'll never sell anything. Regardless of what medium or technique I use, there will undoughtedly be people who hate it.

I can't stand phone calls -- especially when I'm busy. Flyers are often trashed and thus paper wasted. At least with email, it's optional. I can read it and discard it immediately or archive for later purposes. It's unobtrusive and yet fairly personal -- or it can be.

As long as I only send a single email and not bombard people with one after the other -- morally I'm doing just fine.

I tend to think of spam as viral email that just continues to flood my inbox with no purpose. I'm not going to buy <span style='color:red;text-decoration:blink' title='Alert a moderator!'>grilled spam</span>, on the other hand, if I received an email from a company that offered superior hosting, I would then likely archive the email and research it later.

Personally, I guess, I just prefer email. It's not intimidating and you don't feel the pressure of a pushy salesman -- or you shouldn't anyways. Flyers are random. I don't eat at Burger King very often, so the coupons I receve weekly are mostly wasted.

Google Ads is great but -- it's not as effective. I need to reach a very particular vertical market. Direct selling is the only real option.

Interesting problem -- this grey area. Kind of goes hand in hand with selling I guess. :cry:
User avatar
Bill H
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:16 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by Bill H »

So what is the difference, for you then, between someone calling you on the phone, sending a flyer or emailing you?
It's all spam, and all unwelcome. They call, I hang up. The send spam, I delete it unopened. They send junk mail, I throw it out unread.

Put an ad in the yellow pages, the paper, on your own website, paid ads on other websites. Just don't intrude into my privacy.
User avatar
Benjamin
Site Administrator
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 10:24 pm

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by Benjamin »

I don't like watching commercials on TV either but I'm not going to cry about it. I just use my computer to delay TV so I can fast forward through them. Just mail them out. There will always be a few crybabies. Someone can call the whambulance for them.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

I think many people dislike advertising of any kind. At the same time, I think they are typically frugal and do want to be bothered about something they don't explicitly want to buy. On the other hand, there are people like me, who dislikes being inconvienced and yet being sold somethign useful is always welcome.
User avatar
Bill H
DevNet Resident
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:16 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by Bill H »

I think many people dislike advertising of any kind.
I don't dislike advertising at all. I read many blogs, and probably half of them have advertising on them. I not only don't mind the advertising on the blogs that have it, I read the ads. That advertising supports the bloggers who are entertaining or informing me, and I came to the site where the ads are placed. I have even been known to click on those ads to see more about the advertiser.

The point is that I came to the site where those ads are located, they did not intrude into my space uninvited. We live in a world that increasingly disrespects private space.
alex.barylski
DevNet Evangelist
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by alex.barylski »

The point is that I came to the site where those ads are located, they did not intrude into my space uninvited.
I hear ya, I really do. My only counter argument is that advertising alone is not always an effective approach to building awareness. If a company didn't advertise traditionally with noobtrusive media, someone like you may never find out about a product or service which could change your life -- ideally for the better.

Many companies are not even aware of their problems until you make light of them, as a proferssional developer and/or software geek this is very frequent.

in these cases, I see assertive/aggressive informational messages/emails as a benefit to both parties. It's hard to say really. I'm still on the fence as to whether it's a good idea or not.

Thanks for the feedback though -- it's always best to look at things from many angles before acting on itl.
User avatar
Chris Corbyn
Breakbeat Nuttzer
Posts: 13098
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Credible email or Spam?

Post by Chris Corbyn »

Right or wrong, if it's business you're after a paper mail out would be far more effective than an email. I'm speaking from a business point of view here, not from a moral point of view. Paper mailouts are probably more obtrusive, but they are more likely to be noticed. I look at email subjects and if it's not from a friend or something I was expecting it gets deleted before I even open it. I also have my email client set to not display the email when it's clicked on (i.e. I have the preview pane removed) so I'd have to actually double click it read bother reading it. Paper on the other hand, I have to look at it before I decide to bin it. Especially if it's a letter addressed to me personally.

Paper mailouts don't cost very much (what's a stamp cost these days?). If your business is going to be a success the cost of a mailout would be unquestionable. You have to very patient with this sort of thing though... I'm not sure how much you know about business but the return rate on mailouts is under 5% from what I remember something like 3%?). That doesn't mean you get a sale... it just means you get an enquiry.

I've witnessed the thousands of letters going out (to schools in the UK actually) and getting a low number back (it was almost exactly the number we statistically expected to get too). I can't remember the figures for the life of me now though.
Post Reply