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Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:40 pm
by ksephp
I've got a pretty good understanding of HTML and have been learning PHP over the course of the last month. So far it seems pretty straight forward I'm really enjoying it, but ultimately i want to supplement my income. Is there a lot of freelance opportunity out there for someone who just knows html and PHP? If so, what is the going rate for someone just starting out? Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:58 pm
by alex.barylski
I would say it's a horrible market, there are many ways to make money in PHP I just don't believe freelancing is one of them.

Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:15 pm
by RobertGonzalez
It depends on where you live and who you service.
For a long time PHP devs in Silicon Valley were able to make a pretty decent living knowing only PHP and HTML. Now, with the advent of hugely popular web sites programmed in PHP there is a stronger demand for full time PHP programmers and less of a demand for freelancers. Of course, there is always going to be freelance work. But you are going to have to contend with the likes of $10 an hour off shore labor that receives much of the outsourced contracts. That is hard to do nowadays.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:29 pm
by alex.barylski
^^^ Well said.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:22 pm
by Eran
It depends on the situation really. Some people are looking to have their sites built by freelancers instead of web-development companies to lower costs. I only recently started testing the open market and I was very pleasantly surprised.
Of course the pay and work is dependent on your skills and experience. I would suggest starting by doing semi-charitable work for friends or relatives and gain experience.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:28 pm
by Kieran Huggins
Good application design stands alone as a valuable commodity; the language you use doesn't really matter all that much.
The secret to competing with the under-priced "competition" is this: don't. Do good work, and have the confidence to stand by your value.
The graphic design industry is a good model to learn from.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:46 pm
by alex.barylski
The graphic design industry is a good model to learn from.
Only graphics design has two major benefits:
1) You need to understand Western culture to see a clients vision.
2) Design is determined to be quality within seconds.
As long as an application works and looks sorta good a client won't care about how it is written, whether you stick to MVC or diverge a bit here and there, using OOP and procedural. Security risks, etc.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:56 pm
by RobertGonzalez
Hockey wrote:As long as an application works and looks sorta good a client won't care about how it is written...
This is not always the case. I have some clients that fit this model to the T. I have others that will totally balk at you doing something that is outside of the model they ask for.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:42 pm
by alex.barylski
I am sure there are some clients who would not appreciate poor design, but seriously how many even know what good or poor design is all about? I've worked for a few software companies who didn't even have formal processes or workflows, standards, conventions, or patterns which they followed, so I would gander a guess and think most businesses wouldn't have the slightest clue either.
Not to mention there is a lot of disagreement between members in the community on what *exactly* constitues good design practices and what MVC is exactly. Considering there are at least a dozen members on here who spend a significant amount of time studying and learning software architecture, design patterns, practices, etc it's rare that everyone is in agreement.
So not only is "quality" debatable I think it's mostly misunderstood by many developers so it's probably less understood by your average business man or IT manager, etc...
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:17 pm
by Eran
Quality doesn't conform to a specific methodology or pattern. When I explain to clients why I charge several times more than the script kiddie they found in rentacoder or is their cousin's neighbour, I explain that I will provide a body of work that will be highly maintainable, extendable and well documented. This is where a client makes a choice if he invests more in his project's future or compromises to save money.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:12 pm
by alex.barylski
This is why it's all in the sales pitch. Everybody thinks their code/framework/application is cutting edge, good design, efficient, etc.
It mostly depends on whether you instill that confidence in your clients.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:43 pm
by Eran
I agree. An important part to successful freelancing is to be able to represent yourself well.
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:06 pm
by Kieran Huggins
second
Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:00 pm
by alex.barylski
Are you a fan of Futurama.

Re: Just started learning PHP...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:08 pm
by califdon
C'mon, guys, let's try not to go too far
