Is English needed for PHP programmers??

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Christopher
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

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pytrin wrote:First of all, most technologies aren't made in English speaking countries. The U.S was actually ranked seventh in the world last year, with the top 6 all non-English speaking countries. Read here for some more details - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6502725.stm
That ranking is actually the quality of the technology environment, not the quantity of new technologies created ... just to be clear.
pytrin wrote:Second, every developed nation has a linguistics committee that is usually a collabration between the top educational institutes, and that committee is responsible for constantly updating the language with new or modified words and pronunciations. Most words are accepted into the language after being introduced naturally (a scientific breakthrough and a cultural phenomena are two good examples), while others are created to fill in voids where the language is insufficient.
Almost every language has this but English, which is an often overlooked but important fact. Most languages have a prescriptive grammar -- meaning that there is a standards body of some kind for the language. Words are officially accepted into the language.

English on the other had is a proscriptive grammar. Technically any utterance by a native English speaker is correct. That may be hard to believe, but in English the speakers define the language. That is the interesting thing and the heart of this discussion. As more people around the world become what could be considered native English speakers, they contribute to the language each time they speak.
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Eran
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

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Almost every language has this but English, which is an often overlooked but important fact. Most languages have a prescriptive grammar -- meaning that there is a standards body of some kind for the language. Words are officially accepted into the language.

English on the other had is a proscriptive grammar. Technically any utterance by a native English speaker is correct. That may be hard to believe, but in English the speakers define the language. That is the interesting thing and the heart of this discussion. As more people around the world become what could be considered native English speakers, they contribute to the language each time they speak.
Actually that is not much of a difference - other languages evolve through their speakers as well, the 'standards body' as you called it is just there to fill in the voids and to induct new words in officially. I am pretty sure English has such a body - and probably more than one (the U.K and the U.S probably have separate entities for example).
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shiznatix
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by shiznatix »

Seeing as most technologies and advancements are made in the English world how do people living in Estonia translate a new word like "computer" into their native tongue?
Arvuti :D
Estonia has arguably the fastest growing IT sector in the world and we have native words for all IT things. How do you think new words come into English? They are made up, same as the rest of the world.
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Christopher
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

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pytrin wrote:Actually that is not much of a difference - other languages evolve through their speakers as well, the 'standards body' as you called it is just there to fill in the voids and to induct new words in officially. I am pretty sure English has such a body - and probably more than one (the U.K and the U.S probably have separate entities for example).
Actually it is a very real difference between English and most other languages. Most languages have prescriptive grammars, English has a proscriptive grammar. And there isn't a standards body for English. Hard to believe, but true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... regulators

In English, probably things like the BBC, CNN and the NY Times are as big of an influence as most country's language academies.
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Eran
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Eran »

Wow.. that is pretty unbelieveable
alex.barylski
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by alex.barylski »

I find it hard to believe you have a Ph.D in English...your sentances don't sound like that of a native English speaker or an expert. :drunk:
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Eran
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Eran »

No offense, but you are clearly not an expert of or even reasonably fluent in the English language if you can't understand Hockey's sentence...
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omniuni
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by omniuni »

I would recommend that if you browse the forum. Read posts. You'll notice that you speak in a dialect that is actually more confusing than that of standard English because of the overuse of old verbiage.

In other words, learn the modern practices first, then, when you can be confused for a native speaker, you'll either have your answer, or you can ask.

This is not meant to be an insult in any way, just a recommendation that might help you in your quest to better understand the use of English.

-OmniUni
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Mordred
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Mordred »

Gautam, English is an official language in India, I'm amazed that a university graduate (a Ph.D. even) demonstrates such a poor job of it. I don't mean to offend you, but your English it about high-school level.

Edit: I mean a high-school in Bulgaria with a language-based profile, which means a year of extended study of English after 7th grade. Most (if not all, I'm not sure of the current policy) high-schools offer such an additional year though.

-----

There is one "perfect" language - Lojban - it's unambiguous and exact, suitable for both human learning and machine processing, culturally fair (its words are derived from existing languages with weights based on number of speakers, which means there's quite a lot of Urdu roots ;) ), etc.

It hasn't kicked off very well, though:
G4.How many people are there in the Lojban community? How many can use Lojban?

There are about 1500 people on the hard-copy mailing list, most of whom have a rather low-level interest. They received the hard-copy newsletter le lojbo karni (The Lojbanic Journal) when it was being published. Around 130 had paid subscriptions to ju'i lobypli (Attention! Lojbanic Users), the more technical journal. As of January 2002, around 375 people have purchased the The Complete Lojban Language. Also, as of that date, there are about 250 people on the Lojban List, with the number rising slowly (about 30% of the Lojban List subscribers are from outside the US). Over 100 people have posted text in Lojban; a couple dozen have demonstrated ability to converse in Lojban in real time, and serveral people, notably Nick Nicholas, are considered to be completely fluent in Lojban. (Nick developed his fluency solely through self-study and translation work—he was able to converse at near-fluent speed the very first time he spoke to anyone else in Lojban).
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Eran
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Eran »

The is a pretty universal site as most of us hail from non-English speaking countries. However your dialect is the one that stands out, so maybe you should revise your definitions of the universal language...
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Christopher
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Christopher »

It is the general policy of these forums to be very tolerant of grammatical and spelling mistakes in posts. Similarly we discourage netspeak acronyms. The goal is for all members to feel comfortable asking questions and giving answers. Those question and answers are the goal. Nitpicking and criticism only hinder people trying to get their software or system to work.

I think it is very funny that is Gautam Sarma being engaged by members for whom English is not their first or only language. I am not sure they she/he knows that. ;) And it is sad but true that many people who speak English as a second or third language, speak it better than we native speakers.

I mentioned above that there are some interesting things going on with English, especially in places like India where English has been an official language for many years and is used internally as a lingua franca. English acquires some local grammatical structures and idiom that make it more expressive locally, but less understandable globally. It will be interesting how these are incorporated into the living language. English tends to embrace and extend rather than push back (e.g. ain't or singular/plural). We may find Gautam Sarma's grammar and diction more acceptable in the coming years. ;)
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alex.barylski
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

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gautamkoth wrote: Well, I am still learning the great language English. You know, learning is a never ending and unlimited process. For your kind information I am not a native speaker of English but I am learning this language to be a smart speaker.
Life is all about learning. I'm not an expert either but I have spoken English since whenever I started speaking and your sentances don't sound like a PhD.

Go read a book by Donald Knuth. IMHO that man writes such excellent English and clearly demonstrates a command of the language I have to use a dictionary in tandem with reading his works.

Actually his writing is so complex at times...I find it almost frustrating and slightly annoying so whether that makes him an expert, I"m not so sure. Communication is great tool to teach and learn but if the tool is so complex it's difficult for anyone to learn then it's not as effective as it could be. Then again, I believe his books are targeting a PhD audience so talking like a infant wouldn't really be appropriate. :P
pytrin wrote:No offense, but you are clearly not an expert of or even reasonably fluent in the English language if you can't understand Hockey's sentence...
Hahaha...what are you saying? :P

My English is...ummm...well admittedly basic. I just recently learned when to use a semi-colon. :oops:
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Eran
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Eran »

I just meant your sentence should be perfectly legible to any English speaker ;)
alex.barylski
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by alex.barylski »

Ahhh...good then. Except after I've had a few drinks, then I sound like an Irish Poet. :P

p.s-I'm part Irish I'm allowed to say that. :)
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Christopher
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Re: Is English needed for PHP programmers??

Post by Christopher »

It was poets that were complaining ... ;)
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