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AN AI OS

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:55 pm
by yacahuma
I was just thinking how boring OS has become. OS X, Vista, Linux. The GUI has not changed much, The same can be said about the way we interact with the computer. I think is time for a new OS. One that grows into a partner. Learn the way I work. It knows that I like to watch Naruto on fridays, so it goes and download it for me. Maybe it knows the type of news I like to read and it searches on the Internet and bring me the stuff it finds. Definitively has speech recognition, so at least for surfing the web, and writing documents no keyboard will be required. I am not talking about a couple of add on to and OS. I am talking about building an OS of top of an artificial intelligence engine. This are just a few things that come to mind. But I am sure there could be thousands of things it could do.

I am sure someone already had this idea. Why is not a reality already?

What do you think?

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:52 pm
by alex.barylski
was just thinking how boring OS has become. OS X, Vista, Linux.
Like all good ideas eventually they reach their peak and novelty wares off.
The GUI has not changed much, The same can be said about the way we interact with the computer
The GUI cannot change much more until we move into other realms like VR. 3D desktops are neat but do nothing to increase productivity. I'm waiting for the day I no longer have to use a mouse but my web camera follows the retina of my eye and blinking (brain signale) replaces clicking.

Likewise, instead of typing I just want to think and have text appear. Voice activated typing will never work for development. Maybe in dictating notes but something as precise as programming syntax you'd be correcting more errors and back spacing more than anything.
One that grows into a partner. Learn the way I work. It knows that I like to watch Naruto on fridays, so it goes and download it for me. Maybe it knows the type of news I like to read and it searches on the Internet and bring me the stuff it finds. Definitively has speech recognition, so at least for surfing the web, and writing documents no keyboard will be required.
These are all ideas the big guys are actively working on. I just watched a show a while ago about Microsoft's natural interface (I think that is what it was called). Believe me, these are not new ideas...it's just a lot harder to develop then you think it is, otherwise MS would be doing it and my bet is, they are the first to do -- nevermind Linux or Mac OS. If it's one thing M$ has always accelled at it's getting the user experience right. Minus WGA warning and other paranoid "features".
. I am talking about building an OS of top of an artificial intelligence engine. This are just a few things that come to mind. But I am sure there could be thousands of things it could
Because AI would make implementing a system even more complex...and it's already the most complex part of software development. Get pick up a book on Linux core or Kernel...that stuff is mind bogglingly complex...throw in AI and you have a problem which is so complex it's impossible (with our understanding of the universe) to to comprehend.

I'm sure there is some AI built into OS core...in fact I know there...lots of decisions are made based on heuristics.
I am sure someone already had this idea. Why is not a reality already?
Because sometimes ideas takes centuries to become a reality. People wanted to fly for more than a Millennia and yet Flight has only beenpossible in the last 106 years.
What do you think?
I think you should use iGoogle as it's about as close as your going to get to a computer that knows kinda what you want, maybe even when you want it? :)

Use that fire and passion to go out and change the world...write the software yourself then brag to your friends and to us... :P

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:18 pm
by onion2k
PCSpectra wrote:The GUI cannot change much more until we move into other realms like VR. 3D desktops are neat but do nothing to increase productivity. I'm waiting for the day I no longer have to use a mouse but my web camera follows the retina of my eye and blinking (brain signale) replaces clicking.
Sounds horrible. I know for a fact my brain wanders all over the place when I'm working. Having that rubbish appear on the page would be incredibly unproductive.

The reason GUI's are the same between operating systems, and haven't changed, is simply because what we have now works. Why change it if what we've got is good?

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:19 pm
by yacahuma
It will be sad if 20 years from now we are interacting with computers the same way.
Having that rubbish appear on the page would be incredibly unproductive.
I am sure your "AIOS" will know that, and will not bother you . Thats is exactly the kind of things I am talking about. The OS will behave and organize information the way you like it. Not the way someone at MS(or any other company) say is the only way.

The AI engine will be the core, and the OS will just be an application inside the AI.

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:11 am
by onion2k
yacahuma wrote:It will be sad if 20 years from now we are interacting with computers the same way.
Why? What's wrong with the way we use them? When there's an interface that works well there's no good reason to change it... cars have had the same interface for nearly 100 years. It's not sad that we're using the same there. It's good. Anyone who's learnt to drive can get into any car and drive it. That's brilliant. The same thing in computing is good.
yacahuma wrote:
Having that rubbish appear on the page would be incredibly unproductive.
I am sure your "AIOS" will know that, and will not bother you . Thats is exactly the kind of things I am talking about. The OS will behave and organize information the way you like it. Not the way someone at MS(or any other company) say is the only way.

The AI engine will be the core, and the OS will just be an application inside the AI.
Ok, you've lost me completely. What is an "AI engine"? How is it different to an OS? Why have you mentioned an "AIOS" (artificial intelligence operating system) in one sentence and then said the OS will just be an app inside the AI? You seem to be changing your mind a bit too quickly.

Anyone can make up terms for non-existent things, but you can't reasonably expect other people to discuss the idea unless you clearly explain what you mean.

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:43 am
by yacahuma
You are right. Is a chicken and the egg problem. I keep thinking that in terms of architecture, the AI will always comes first. So it must have some of the functionality of a normal OS.

Is like in the movie IronMan. Where Stark is working but at the same time the AI takes care of some of the tasks when asked by him. Or when Geordi from Start Trek, Ask the computer to do part of a well defined task but the rest is done by him.


What will happen if a human is born without a hand? and we have the technology to put him new ones. Will the brain knows how to send the correct signals to move the fingers? What if I give my AIOS a cdrom and just tell him the basic ideas of what is supposed to do. Could the AIOS be able to fully manage the device? :crazy:

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:07 am
by onion2k
yacahuma wrote:You are right. Is a chicken and the egg problem. I keep thinking that in terms of architecture, the AI will always comes first. So it must have some of the functionality of a normal OS.

Is like in the movie IronMan. Where Stark is working but at the same time the AI takes care of some of the tasks when asked by him. Or when Geordi from Start Trek, Ask the computer to do part of a well defined task but the rest is done by him.
I can tell my computer to do things already. Voice recognition is built into Windows Vista... it's pretty cool. Also, your computer does do loads of background tasks already. There's obvious things like Windows Indexing Server that collates data for faster searching, but there's other stuff too like Google Alerts for automated news searching... The technology isn't particularly well integrated at the moment so it appears as disparate services but it does exist.
yacahuma wrote:What will happen if a human is born without a hand? and we have the technology to put him new ones. Will the brain knows how to send the correct signals to move the fingers?
We can already transplant limbs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7537897.stm ... two new arms, and within a couple of years he'll be able to use them properly.
yacahuma wrote:What if I give my AIOS a cdrom and just tell him the basic ideas of what is supposed to do. Could the AIOS be able to fully manage the device? :crazy:
That already happens with USB and Plug'n'Play.

I really don't get why we need something like AI for any of the things you're talking about.

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:30 am
by jayshields
onion2k wrote:We can already transplant limbs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7537897.stm ... two new arms, and within a couple of years he'll be able to use them properly.
I'm still waiting for the day when we can transplant eyes, and therefore brains...

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:32 am
by onion2k
jayshields wrote:
onion2k wrote:We can already transplant limbs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7537897.stm ... two new arms, and within a couple of years he'll be able to use them properly.
I'm still waiting for the day when we can transplant eyes, and therefore brains...
We can do cornea transplants. Does that count?

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:45 pm
by alex.barylski
Why? What's wrong with the way we use them? When there's an interface that works well there's no good reason to change it... cars have had the same interface for nearly 100 years. It's not sad that we're using the same there. It's good. Anyone who's learnt to drive can get into any car and drive it. That's brilliant. The same thing in computing is good.
I disagree. There is much to be improved in terms of computer usability. A vision imparied individual cannot read without assistance. Someone with no arms can't use a keyboard.

They day an interface is entirely (universally) accessible that will be the day the computer is brilliant because that will be the day computers think for themselves and offer human like answers at break neck speeds.

I can't believe you think using a mouse or keyboard is accetable. Personally I see it more as "I'll make do with what I got". :P

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:28 am
by onion2k
PCSpectra wrote:I disagree.
Well isn't that new. :roll: You always disagree. It's quite surprising that you're always this antagonistic on a forum that you essentially use as an advert for your services... I can't think it's a particularly good message to send to people you want to work with. Still, it's your choice.
PCSpectra wrote:There is much to be improved in terms of computer usability. A vision imparied individual cannot read without assistance. Someone with no arms can't use a keyboard.
As mean as it might sound, we should be developing interfaces that work best for the majority and then augmenting them for people with specific disabilities. What's wrong with giving people assistance if they need it?
PCSpectra wrote:They day an interface is entirely (universally) accessible that will be the day the computer is brilliant because that will be the day computers think for themselves and offer human like answers at break neck speeds.
Why would we need computers to think for themselves in order to provide us with an accessible interface? I don't see any logic behind that statement at all. The two are separate points and there's no causation between them.
PCSpectra wrote:I can't believe you think using a mouse or keyboard is accetable. Personally I see it more as "I'll make do with what I got". :P
People have tried many other interfaces... eyetracking, alpha wave reading, touch screens, voice recognition... but the mouse+keyboard is always there at the top because it's simple and it works. If someone invents something better no doubt it'll be adopted but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:17 pm
by alex.barylski
Well isn't that new. You always disagree. It's quite surprising that you're always this antagonistic on a forum that you essentially use as an advert for your services... I can't think it's a particularly good message to send to people you want to work with. Still, it's your choice.
Hahaha. Sorry if I struck the wrong chord. I wasn't trying to antagonize. I was simply disagreeing or stating my opinion. Whether that sounds negative or not is subjective so I fail to see how that negatively affects my business.

Oddly I just checked my signup date and I noticed I joined on the exact same day as you and according to my timestamp I have you beat by 3 minutes. That is so weird. :P

Anyways, the point is...I disagree with that assessment. I don't use forum essentially for advertising. I was a member for a long time before I started advertising my web site and/or services. I might not contribute to the PHP code forum as much as you as I find answering the same questions over and over again a bit boring and waste of my time. Admittedly I'm not as generous as you or others on this site.
As mean as it might sound, we should be developing interfaces that work best for the majority and then augmenting them for people with specific disabilities. What's wrong with giving people assistance if they need it?
Haha. This I agree with. Still I know a mouse holds me back. 95% of what I do can be done with the keyboard faster so I use accelerator keys, etc. If I could avoid going to the mouse at all I'd be even happier. I know a keyboard slows me down too. I certainly type a lot slower than I think. If my thoughts could be converted into keystrokes and my cursor pointed wherever I needed to look my development time would be increased exponentially.
Why would we need computers to think for themselves in order to provide us with an accessible interface? I don't see any logic behind that statement at all. The two are separate points and there's no causation between them.
Now I'm confused. :P
People have tried many other interfaces... eyetracking, alpha wave reading, touch screens, voice recognition... but the mouse+keyboard is always there at the top because it's simple and it works. If someone invents something better no doubt it'll be adopted but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting
Obviously. No one is going to stop using a computer until something else is invented. :lol: You gave me the impression that you were anti-innovation or content with what we have. Which is fine I just personally disagreed. Sure I'm fine with it I just know it could be done better. All other innovations thus far are primitive and/or to expensive for everyday use which is why the keyboard/mouse prevail. So in a sense I guess they are superior in that regard but they are certainly not the end all be all -- which is the point I was trying to make. :)

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:50 pm
by yacahuma
I agree with pcspectra. Think about it. Have things changed so much things windows 3.1. I dont think so. Sure computers are faster, but we also have slower OS.(Vista anyone). And for me the interface also hold me back. If I ever record myself working I am sure I waste 30% of my time switching windows and opening and closing folders. I am sure there have to be a better way. And for people that are visually impair, is really tough. From my point of view computer literally have no voice. I love computer, like I am sure everyone in this forum do, heck I started with my ti994a and commodore 64(a long time ago). But I always wanted computers to do something more.(and I am not talking about a talking friend).

Imagine this: Computer please setup automatic payment from my account XXX to account XXX.

Sure I can do this today. I have to turn on my computer, What for the stupid thing to come up. Check if my internet connection is up. Login to my account browse through a couple of pages and confirm. Why not let my AIOS, do this for me.

I dont think I am dreaming too much either. All this can be done.

One thing is for certain, if we ever want something like this, we cannot just continue adding more crap to our current OSes.

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:17 pm
by alex.barylski
I agree with pcspectra. Think about it. Have things changed so much things windows 3.1. I dont think so
Visually no, they way we interact with them? no. Architecture and System big time. Oddly I prefer the simple looking windows to flashy Mac/XP style buttons and effects.
Sure computers are faster, but we also have slower OS.(Vista anyone).
That is the funny thing about Windows and their expert marketing guru's. Sure the OS might execute a Windows application faster than previous OS'es but they fail to mention the user experience will actually be slower due to the increased complexity of the system. So yes it's slower and yes it's faster. :P
Sure I can do this today. I have to turn on my computer, What for the stupid thing to come up. Check if my internet connection is up. Login to my account browse through a couple of pages and confirm. Why not let my AIOS, do this for me.
Your computer would have to be a mind reader, if I understand you correctly.
I dont think I am dreaming too much either. All this can be done.
Read your mind? That's dreaming...at least in our life time. ;)

You could...setup a macro to carry out those actions and execute a transfer of data from one account to another with the click of a mouse or setup the macro to be executed on a set date or time.
One thing is for certain, if we ever want something like this, we cannot just continue adding more crap to our current OSes.
I can deal with the crap...I just hide it or uninstall when I reformat. If it ever becomes that big of an issue I'll just create a custom linux distro.

Vista sucks because it's basically a money grab like ME...nothing really awesome about it. Would be nice if Windows next step was towards a virtual desktop. Something like what is possible with X windows. Where each node on a network is just a simple machine with a basic OS installed. Nothing is installed or saved locally it's just a "window" to a server which houses your data and applications.

Something like what is possible now with GotoMyPC or what I am trying to do with web applications.

Cheers,
Alex

Re: AN AI OS

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:20 am
by onion2k
PCSpectra wrote:Vista sucks because it's basically a money grab like ME...nothing really awesome about it. Would be nice if Windows next step was towards a virtual desktop. Something like what is possible with X windows. Where each node on a network is just a simple machine with a basic OS installed. Nothing is installed or saved locally it's just a "window" to a server which houses your data and applications.
You mean something like Windows Application Server?

This is the problem with trying to predict the future ... most of the things we can come up with are actually quite obvious. Other people have thought of them, and made them, and that makes any predictions of ours look silly. You need to spend much more time reading and learning about what's available now before you can start to see what isn't around, and then you need to spend a great deal of time thinking about why it isn't around - is there a real technological barrier, or a psychological barrier, or is it because it's actually a bad idea that other people have had and discarded already?