Short sighted?Clever? Maybe not. Short sighted and greedy? Yes.
We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
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alex.barylski
- DevNet Evangelist
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Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
I don't know about that either. The economy didn't get the way it is because of a less thinking, non-business individual with a credit card fixation stepped on the scene- not that those didn't help.PCSpectra wrote:I'm beginning to think that business savvy people are the most intelligent people on th planet.
Think about that a minute, isn't the "business savvy", cut all corners to save a penny. Cut and paste where ever possible. Don't hire someone who knows what they are doing, hire someone that can manage a template site for a third of the pay. Hire someone who will do three peoples jobs at the cost of one. Then we can create a national and international tests - ew, permits, licenses - the CDL mills of computer science; we can make a fortune!
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
It says required skills, it doesn't say someone has to memorize the manuals.
competency = student has achieved the required level of skill and ability.
competency = student has achieved the required level of skill and ability.
No, not at all...jrja wrote:isn't the "business savvy", cut all corners to save a penny. Cut and paste where ever possible.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Sorry; it's just the "business savvy" people I know would kick their mothers to the corner for a nickel. Perhaps I just need to hang out in better bars. 
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Business is shifting from product oriented to customer oriented, the people you refer to might have been savvy yesterday, and their techniques may still work today, but we'll see what happens in 5, or 10 years time
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Well, I hope your right. I'm tired of switching jobs because I'm asked to do something illegal or expected to show loyalty to someone who has no ethics. Yeah, it's been that way.
But, to nudge a little closer to topic - if I possessed all the knowledge the ad said they required, I would go on the lecture circuit or start writing books, or both. Definitely not working for someone else. I'll keep studying and working with it, then I'll get there.
But, to nudge a little closer to topic - if I possessed all the knowledge the ad said they required, I would go on the lecture circuit or start writing books, or both. Definitely not working for someone else. I'll keep studying and working with it, then I'll get there.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
I mainly work independently. While I have worked for companies before, I find so many people who care more about just having something function than having it work right, or be made correctly. How can I compete with this? I try always to work ethically, and to not waste my clients money. I do the best I can, and inform my client if I can not do what they want. This said, there are so many people that will not do this. That would offer the world, and never come close to delivery.
Two years ago, working for $10 an hour, I advised a company that their current corporate website, was a terribly coded gob, full of proprietary components, and that I did not see any way that the current developer could deliver what they were requesting on time (about 4 months), or even at all, and that they were paying, literally, tens of thousands of dollars too much.
I found out recently, that their ASP website is, after further investigation, full of proprietary DLLs, slow, cobbled together, and that they are seriously displeased with this developer. BIG SURPRISE.
The smaller websites I had made for some branches of the company function perfectly to this day. I support them by eMail, the people that manage the websites have been very happy with my work.
Maybe the reason I would not apply for a job like that is because I like working ethically. There is no way I could fit a description like that accurately, not as it is described. I'm not going to go in and B.S. my way through the interview, just to cobble something together and convince them that I delivered... with requirements like that, they'll probably find someone who will do just that.
Two years ago, working for $10 an hour, I advised a company that their current corporate website, was a terribly coded gob, full of proprietary components, and that I did not see any way that the current developer could deliver what they were requesting on time (about 4 months), or even at all, and that they were paying, literally, tens of thousands of dollars too much.
I found out recently, that their ASP website is, after further investigation, full of proprietary DLLs, slow, cobbled together, and that they are seriously displeased with this developer. BIG SURPRISE.
The smaller websites I had made for some branches of the company function perfectly to this day. I support them by eMail, the people that manage the websites have been very happy with my work.
Maybe the reason I would not apply for a job like that is because I like working ethically. There is no way I could fit a description like that accurately, not as it is described. I'm not going to go in and B.S. my way through the interview, just to cobble something together and convince them that I delivered... with requirements like that, they'll probably find someone who will do just that.
- volomike
- Forum Regular
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- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:04 am
- Location: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Exactly. Why work for them if I know so much? Heck, if I know that much, I should be minting my own money by doing constant workshops and authoring several books.jrja wrote:...if I possessed all the knowledge the ad said they required, I would go on the lecture circuit or start writing books, or both. Definitely not working for someone else...
And at least from what I've seen in the USA, sooooo many HR departments are clueless when they work with IT Managers to define job listings. And unfortunately they have a cut-and-paste boilerplate mentality where they use something they used in the past and just paste in extra stuff, which is completely stupid, but they don't know better.
When I last held down a day job in a cubicle, I was completely annoyed by HR -- they were a worthless suck of cash on the company time. And it's only been very few companies I worked for where HR actually added anything of value to the company.
There needs to be a school where IT Managers and HR workers must go through in order to have a decent level of competency and to keep up with the modern times, especially with an understanding of IT stuff. Too often I've seen very poor choices of people as IT Managers or HR workers.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
That story sounds so familiar. If you believe in evolutionary psychology they are just protecting themselves. They justify their actions based on a circular loop ( "well he will do a good job because we paid him $5k so far, therefore he will do a good job", or even worse, "there is no way we're switching horses midstream" - to which I reply, "what if the horse is dead?" ). I think true change can only come from a previous generation passing knowledge down to the next generation. Look at linguistics, when 2 people come together that speak opposing languages, they create a pidgin language, they are able to express vague ideas, but there is no laws of syntax in a pidgin language. I think the previous generations business leaders have figured out everything that needs to be figured out, it just depends on how this next generation is going to choose to "glue" together the ideas. I think in the story you described( with the ASP site ) the manager *knew* they were making a bad choice, but had so emotionally commited themselves they couldn't bring themselves to even admit it. A good leader must learn to live with regrets.
And yeah that job listing is just asking for people with over-inflated egos
And yeah that job listing is just asking for people with over-inflated egos
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
They are destorying long term prospects and living in the "now".PCSpectra wrote:Short sighted?Clever? Maybe not. Short sighted and greedy? Yes.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Hah if they're so bad at business one of us should step up and show them how its done then. I've been trying...
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
"Short sighted" people get immediate results (with long term draw backs), and when everyone (inc. Joe Schmo on the street) wants immediate results, guess who wins?
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
Wins in the short term or the long term
Customers will churn, the only advantage aiming for the short term gives you is the cash flow to fix the long term problems _after_ the solution is in place. They still must address the problems eventually or they _will_ be driven out of business. Look at AOL for example. Once the need for the product dissipated they had no more business model.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
No, it just builds up debt. Debt in terms of technical debt, not monetary debt.
Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky
I view them as equal, indeed some form of debt has to be footed before any company can get off the ground.