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We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:23 pm
by volomike
We PHP developers are so lucky. Check out a Java job posting and read the user jonnes' comments about it beneath it.

http://www.jwablogger.com/blogger/viewE ... towel.html

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:47 pm
by Jenk
There are some real idiots on that site. :?

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:36 pm
by matthijs
Maybe the company needs a new HR guy instead :wink:

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:59 pm
by alex.barylski
What I missing....$50+ per hour is a good wage, almost double what I make, and I could add more to that list...whats that guy complaining about?
physicist saving the universe from future catastrophe
Please. Are we supposed to stop learning the second we master our first language or technology? Nothing moves faster than technological evolution, even if we studied everyday we would never keep up with the growth, but it's our obligatory duty as developers to try our best. How boring would life be if all you ever learned was Windows and BASIC? Zzzzzz...you'd never feel the power of C++ or the intricacy of Assembler or the annoyance of Javascript and the pleasure of PHP. :P

Why do people like that even bother programming? Is the lure for money that great? Why not study Law, they make a killing, more than developers anyway.

Seriously, I feel a kinship with guys in bands. Those buggers work their a$$ off constantly doing what they "love" to do...they do it morning, noon and night, for free, all with the hopes of one day being recorgnized and exploding into fame and fortune. Most never see anything beyond a few hundred bucks a gig, but continue on, because it's passion that pushes them forward, not professional status or wealth.

I love what I do...I do it morning, noon and night. I consider myself lucky enough to have experienced professional passion -- that is to say software development is not just my profession it's my lifes passion as well.

I would gladly accept that job, and learn whatever else was required/requested of me.

EDIT | One thing I would like to add...is when a employer adds requirements ike Photoshop, Flash, Quark, DreamWeaver along with C++, C#, PHP, XHTML, etc. I have never met a developer who was truely a master at both and honestly I think that it's impossible as the mindset of the two are so different. One must be pragmatics and innovative in problem solving, the other, must be quirky and listen to alot of weird music and smoke weed and be into gaming and reading magazines with crazy art...

I don't mind tinkering in design stuff every once in a blue...playing in photoshop...mixing music...but I know I'll never be as good as some of the guys I've worked with that were as passionate about design and arts as I was about design and development.

Those employers are just cheap trying to kill 2 birds with one stone and unfortunately result in killing the single product instead. :P

Cheers,
Alex

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:50 am
by Jenk
joness has a point, but it's a misguided point. The reason most employers will list so many "requirements" is to a) chase off time-wasters ("Hi, I just picked up a Java book on the way to the interview. Does that make me qualified?") and b) attract those that have a vested interest in Java ("Wow, they must do all sorts of things with Java!")

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:55 am
by onion2k
Ad agencies, and rubbish companies, write "job requirements" by brainstorming development keywords. I'd rather not work for them because if they do that for a job advert god knows what they'll do for website requirements.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:56 am
by onion2k
Jenk wrote:joness has a point, but it's a misguided point. The reason most employers will list so many "requirements" is to a) chase off time-wasters ("Hi, I just picked up a Java book on the way to the interview. Does that make me qualified?") and b) attract those that have a vested interest in Java ("Wow, they must do all sorts of things with Java!")
Regarding point b ... any developer who actually knows what they're doing will see a list of things like that and think "they don't know what they're doing". And they won't apply.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:16 am
by Jenk
Not true for all developers. Some will look at it as a "this is obviously an agency that has noted what the company does, and has listed them as requirements, instead of 'things the company does'."

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:26 am
by jrja
The person who will fill that slot probably will be someone who had a computer as a rattle.

This one, the employee who gets the job will have absolutely nothing to do or he will have 30 hr days. 50 bucks an hour would be nice. I've never made over 12 on a full time job || 20 on a part time one. I'm like, so underpaid.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:36 am
by panic!
Freelance is where the dollars are at. (£30+ p/h, though I'm sure some people on the board could make way more) I maybe make about 50% of my income from freelance.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:49 am
by JAB Creations

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:58 am
by Chris Corbyn
panic! wrote:Freelance is where the dollars are at. (£30+ p/h, though I'm sure some people on the board could make way more) I maybe make about 50% of my income from freelance.
I'm not so sure these days. The more time I spend in my full-time work (that I love and I'm sure I'll do for many years yet), the more I think going into a team leader or project manager role is a good choice. Plenty of $$$, and still keeps you involved in the big problem solving (the fun bit) aspects of the work.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:26 am
by volomike
Wow, JAB Creations post on the fake job ads really pzd me off. Just wow.

Let's just hope that karma is a b i t - h for those people.

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:16 pm
by alex.barylski
I'm beginning to think that business savvy people are the most intelligent people on th planet. :P

If you think about it...it makes sense for those in hiring positions to both fake job prospects and demand tons of requirements. The are essentially in control of the market forces, supply and demand.

They create a illusion that money is to be made...tons of people jump on the band wagon...when you exceed critical mass and there are more developers than needed, the stiff competition between us only drives down our value. So developers are "forced" into becoming Surgeons of the binary world. :P

Honestly I have little problem with learning new technologies. I don't even have a problem for working for less than the next guy. My biggest issue is the surplus of developers who write crappy, buggy, insecure, sloppy source code that make more money than I do.

I wish there was a ISO standard for high quality applications which tested several aspects of the completed project (W3C validation as an example) and granted a stamp of approval or something. W3C is an easy test to pass, but there are others which would not be as easy to pass entirely. Basically some of sort of scale to gauge application A against application B. Promoting applications as "approved" would help separate YOU from the other developers.

Cheers,
Alex

Re: We PHP Devs Are Soooo Lucky

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:41 am
by Jenk
PCSpectra wrote:I'm beginning to think that business savvy people are the most intelligent people on th planet. :P
Clever? Maybe not. Short sighted and greedy? Yes.