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Do PHP Developers Give Themselves Away Too Much?

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:51 pm
by caseymanus
I cant help noticing that the "Job Hunt" board is full of requests from people to get PHP developers to do free work , or work at such a rediculous compensation level it might as well be free. Do you think people go to C++ developers forums and ask for the same thing, and if they did wouldnt the only response be histerical laughing? For PHP developers to ever command the salaries they deserve, doesnt the community need to eliminate this "I will do it for free" mentality?

Just a thought..........

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:14 pm
by jason
Personally, it's all in how you present yourself, and who is asking. Yes, a lot of people ask for a lot and don't want to pay anything. That's a fact of life, especially on the Internet.

However, I can say that I have gotten good jobs at my standard rates through the Job Hunt section on this board. In fact, I am even working on one as I speak (well, type).

But yes, you are right, PHP developer's need to treat themselves just as Java or C++ developer's treat themselves. Our language is just as good as these other languages (okay, better, but let's not get out of hand).

However, we need to make sure we offer people quality service, and we aren't overcharging. However, these same people aren't going to go to a ASP board, or a Java board, and tell people they will pay them more for the same thing. They will ask for the same thing, and offer the same price.

It's really like any industry. People come here looking for cheap help, because, well, they can't pay for it. Those businesses that are already in business making money can, and will, pay more for better service. Most people offering nothing offer that because in truth, they are currently getting nothing.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:31 pm
by JPlush76
Its just like "HTML programmers" if there is such a thing. You have people on the net calling themsevles web programs that use frontpage and dont even know how to create a table in notepad.

I work full time as a PHP programmer and also do freelance work but not for under $30-40 per hour. Its just not worth my time otherwise.

There will always be people looking for quick and cheap and there will always be people that are willing to pay for quality and support.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:54 pm
by McGruff
I learned php entirely from free resources on the net - including this forum. The other side to that is a duty to give something back, so I like to help charities or other not-for-profit good causes without charge, if I have the time. It's also good for me: although I've worked as a webmaster I wasn't doing anything dynamic so this gives me some php sites to stick on my CV.

A guy with a "wonderful world of hamsters" site, unwilling to learn to script himself, isn't going to get much out of me though.

I don't like hamsters.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:04 pm
by caseymanus
Hamsters, they're fun

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:33 pm
by JPlush76
yea mcgruff I understand about giving back but I think we're talking more about guys trying to make money off coders time. slave labor basically

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:22 pm
by Stoker
.... you can get lots of C and C++ code for free, e.g. the Linux Kernel, Apache, Mysql, Perl and much much more, and better yet, a lot of that code is written and polished and optimized by professional developers paid by commercial large and small companies.. Perhaps one day there willl be just as much PHP development in the same way?

Getting "Just What I want for my project" for free I don't think is easy no matter what language you use, if you start something yourself and make it opensource and useful for others you may (eventually) get lots of help from the community individuals and/or companies that have an interrest.. It is probably easier to get free help for a PHP project than a C-project because PHP is so easy to get started with and there a lot of capable PHP coders out there.. Getting the "Good" or "Best" PHP coders for free I dont think is any easier than for C/C++

Anyhow, OpenSource rules and makes it all possible 8)

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:18 am
by evilcoder
I used to do alot of work for free, i figured if i had the time i may as well fill it. But now i dont code unless there is a good paycheck in it, simply because i run a business and my spare time is limited.

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:00 pm
by Crashin
I think I echo the sentiments in this post in that I'll "give away" my time to help teach others about coding. But, I will not give away my time for the direct profit of others (i.e. code my site for me so I can become a millionaire, please), although I'm more than happy to take a stake in the profit-taking. :)

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:22 pm
by Gen-ik
If you are just starting out in the web design/programming/whatever business then I guess it's a good move to keep your prices low to start off with. After you have built up a nice client base and have sharpened your PHP skills then you can bump up your prices a bit.

C++ programming is in a different league altogether though and I can understand why C++ programmers charge higher prices. If you have ever tried to get your head around C++ then you'll know what I mean.

PHP is very good.. and I love it to bits.. but at the end of the day it is just an advanced version of HTML and/or JavaScript and doesn't take as much effort and brain power to learn than C++ does.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:16 pm
by Paddy
Perhaps this is true. But java programmers are paid well as well. Php is OOP just like Java and both are similar in complexity. It is a shame that Php has been lumped in the advanced web language category. It lessens its percepted value in the programming community.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:39 pm
by Gen-ik
"It is a shame that Php has been lumped in the advanced web language category"


Why? As far as programming languages for the web go PHP is advanced. The power it gives you for dynamic content, and the shear possibilites of what can be done with it are mind-blowing.

Although if you are just discovering PHP you won't be able to get your mind around what's possible with it and therefore should keep your thoughts to yourself.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:47 pm
by Paddy
Paddy wrote:advanced web language category
I was actually referring to it being labelled as an advanced WEB language and not just an advanced language.

So I think you just reinforced my point, if not rather rudely.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:53 pm
by Stoker
hmm as far as I am concerned, so far anyway up to version 4.x php is not like Java at all and has very little OO stuff.. Version 5 may change this but I doubt it will ever be comparable to Java..

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:02 pm
by Paddy
It has classes, class constructors, class methods, inheritance, encapsulation, polymorphism, etc. What more do you want from and OOP language?