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Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:22 pm
by DavidTheSlayer
Well from what my degree taught me, outsourcing simply means (adding) staff, this may not always help meet a project deadline.

However it can dare (not to be rude to anyone) I say it, be cheaper than some other countries by saving you money. You could then use that money you saved from outsourcing to either pay for more hours to meet a deadline or pay for your staff training so they can speak better English etc etc. Non-business wise you could use that extra money and pay the staff as bonuses, this works wonders for staff morale.

Other than that, you can even host your app out there as well making use of potentially cheaper rates (careful where you target audience is for bandwidth reasons) & using renewable energies such as a wind farm to power your data centre.

But of course some other countries have the same benefits as well e.g Singapore. As you say it depends on lots of factors, including risks of unfortunate earthquakes etc.

I have no knowledge of Indian laws etc & haven't really looked into outsourcing there, so I don't know what other specific benefits are available. Shop around so to speak.

I had to do a case study once, employing a remote lotus domino admin...

a UK person for £35,000 (London based) or a Singapore person with the same skills and exp for $1200 (£800!), which would you choose among other factors as well? That amount I saved would be put into his English training if he wasn't good enough already.

You can compare people potentially with whats called a RASCI diagram, assign numbers to peoples skills, the higher they are, the more they cost to employ. What about with training?

Hope this helps if I understood your question correctly.
David

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:10 pm
by Benjamin
DavidTheSlayer wrote: a UK person for £35,000 (London based) or a Singapore person with the same skills and exp for $1200 (£800!), which would you choose among other factors as well?
David
I would choose someone in my own country so that I don't contribute to the entire financial system collapsing which in turn causes markets around the world to crumble. It really helps when your customers have money to buy your product.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:08 am
by sarah_9
Hello,

Outsource PHP projects from Indian market is beneficial in every aspect, be it quality of work or the budget, they are unbeatable.




Regards,
sarah_9

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:27 am
by josh
astions wrote:I would choose someone in my own country so that I don't contribute to the entire financial system collapsing which in turn causes markets around the world to crumble. It really helps when your customers have money to buy your product.
Hah the free market isn't chess, even if outsourcing hypothetically did lower our GDP somehow are you saying its impossible to have an overall net positive effect at the end of hte day if you outsource?

I'm not really sure what the question is exactly here "why only PHP??". Anyways the going rate is $10-$22 per hr and expect for them to not understand a word of the requirements and expect to spend 30% of the time you would spend creating it yourself, wasted on coddling their developers. Expect to end up having to deal with many different developers whom do not bother communicating with each other. Expect to be prepared to repeat yourself a lot.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:11 am
by onion2k
DavidTheSlayer wrote:a UK person for £35,000 (London based) or a Singapore person with the same skills and exp for $1200 (£800!), which would you choose among other factors as well? That amount I saved would be put into his English training if he wasn't good enough already.
Depends on the job really. If it was something that required cultural knowledge of the UK, or that I would prefer to be able to meet face-to-face to discuss, then obviously the London based developer is going to win. If it's something that I can explain well enough in a few emails and documents and then leave the developer to get on with then the outsourced chap is going to be preferable.

There isn't an answer to the question "Outsource, yes or no?". It all depends on the task.

EDIT: One thing I would add though, I would never use a company that spammed a forum with adverts. In fact, I actively discourage the companies I work with to use them.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:41 am
by Benjamin
josh wrote:Hah the free market isn't chess, even if outsourcing hypothetically did lower our GDP somehow are you saying its impossible to have an overall net positive effect at the end of hte day if you outsource?
You tell me. Did I say that? You know back when Americans cared about where the goods they were buying were made, back when sears catalogs specifically stated whether an item was imported or not, back when a man could go out and get a good factory job and raise a family, back when our economy was good, what exactly do you think made it so? What were the key differences between then and now? This notion that there is a net gain for society with outsourcing is an absurd economists theory. Wake up man, it should be pretty clear to you, especially now, what happens when an entire country imports virtually every manufactured product it consumes. If you're going to come back and argue this with me, I probably won't respond, because frankly I consider people who don't understand this stuff to be not worth my breath.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:51 am
by papa
astions wrote:
josh wrote:Hah the free market isn't chess, even if outsourcing hypothetically did lower our GDP somehow are you saying its impossible to have an overall net positive effect at the end of hte day if you outsource?
You tell me. Did I say that? You know back when Americans cared about where the goods they were buying were made, back when sears catalogs specifically stated whether an item was imported or not, back when a man could go out and get a good factory job and raise a family, back when our economy was good, what exactly do you think made it so? What were the key differences between then and now? This notion that there is a net gain for society with outsourcing is an absurd economists theory. Wake up man, it should be pretty clear to you, especially now, what happens when an entire country imports virtually every manufactured product it consumes. If you're going to come back and argue this with me, I probably won't respond, because frankly I consider people who don't understand this stuff to be not worth my breath.
Well at the end of the day, people choose a $1 dollar item from China compared to a $2 item produced at home 99% of the time. And letting people choose what and where to buy is called democracy.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:59 am
by josh
The U.S. is a republic though. I demand cuban cigars. This sound familiar to the outsourcing today?

the British government passed the Tea Act, which allowed the East India Company to sell tea to the colonies directly and without "payment of any customs or duties whatsoever" in Britain, instead paying the much lower American duty. This tax break allowed the East India Company to sell tea for half the old price and cheaper than the price of tea in England, enabling them to undercut the prices offered by the colonial merchants and smugglers granting them a virtual monopoly.[citation needed]

ps. All I'm saying is you cannot predict the side effects of something in a free market society, since in the end its ultimately up to society as a whole. If there were rules about how the economy reacts to things, well then everyone would invest based on that common knowledge, which negates the effects. The market is an engine not a camera, we're a part of the system.

Also you have to consider we're not talking about importing consumables, we're talking about inventory that is being assembled & resold. If outsourcing the lower level work enables a business to create a better product, and that business is American, and creating the better product increases that companies revenue, and increasing the companies revenue increases total tax dollars paid to the country, what's the down side? I thought foreign trade was a cornerstone of the free market.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:02 am
by papa
josh wrote:The U.S. is a republic though. I demand cuban cigars.
True and I'm not that into politics usually, but just the attitude of "agree with me or smurf of" isn't really healthy.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:58 am
by Benjamin
papa wrote:True and I'm not that into politics usually, but just the attitude of "agree with me or smurf of" isn't really healthy.
Well not being able to get a job, losing your house and accepting food from a food bank isn't really healthy either. Look, service economies don't work. If everyone in a particular country is buying stuff, but not making stuff, they are on borrowed time as far as their economy goes. I mean hell, we've been outsourcing industry for decades more and more. More recently we have started to outsource service jobs such as customer service, engineering, accountants, programmers etc. So therefore if anyone is going to tell me that an economy with nothing more than service jobs such as retail, public service (police, fire, etc), government, food service and health-care is going to do well, they are nuts. Seriously. All these people working in fast food restaurants who can barely afford rent aren't going to be buying many durable goods, and even if they did it wouldn't benefit us because they are being shipped from overseas, which in turn makes the economy worse.

The fact is that when you export your industry you are damaging your economy. Is it democracy? Sure it is. Is it capitalism? Sure it is. Are those valid arguments for it? That's your call. I will say this though, a corporation selling widgets in country X, benefiting from X's economy, who decides to fire their employees and move them to country Y, so they can earn even more money from country X while paying country X less taxes, is treason. Yes I just said that. If this company making widgets is forced to move operations due to competition, then it is the fault of the government in country X for not protecting their industry.

This is a tough conversation to have with people. There are lots of different views but it's really not that complicated. It's pretty simple, export your jobs, watch your economy tank. Hell you can even try it on Sim City. Build your city up nice and then bulldoze all the industry and watch what happens.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:01 am
by onion2k
astions wrote:Well not being able to get a job, losing your house and accepting food from a food bank isn't really healthy either.
What if your business needs a web app to continue trading but you can't afford the local prices? Do you outsource so you don't lose your houses, or do you outsource?

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:05 am
by matthijs
Isn't it a matter of trade balance? If country Y is buying back the same amount from X (in services, high quality goods, weapons or anything else) as X is buying from Y then all is in balance. Then it doesn't matter if everybody within country X is selling each other silly services. And it doesn't matter if cheap plastic crap is made in Y

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:08 am
by Benjamin
onion2k wrote: What if your business needs a web app to continue trading but you can't afford the local prices? Do you outsource so you don't lose your houses, or do you outsource?
I guess that depends on how stubborn one was. ;) Ideally they would get a loan.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:09 am
by Benjamin
matthijs wrote:Isn't it a matter of trade balance? If country Y is buying back the same amount from X (in services, high quality goods, weapons or anything else) as X is buying from Y then all is in balance. Then it doesn't matter if everybody within country X is selling each other silly services. And it doesn't matter if cheap plastic crap is made in Y
That definitely plays a role yes. Definitely not the key indicator of an economies health though.

Re: Why only PHP to outsource Indian Market?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:11 am
by onion2k
astions wrote:
onion2k wrote: What if your business needs a web app to continue trading but you can't afford the local prices? Do you outsource so you don't lose your houses, or do you outsource?
I guess that depends on how stubborn one was. ;) Ideally they would get a loan.
You think your bank manager would give you a loan so that you could pay a higher price to a local developer instead of outsourcing if that was an option?

You've never run a business have you?