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oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:32 am
by mad_phpq
Anyone on here use it? Are you happy with it?
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:07 pm
by greyhoundcode
Yeah, I do jobs via oDesk, personally I prefer it to some of the others because the 'employer' has tighter control over the programmer (you or me!), via their software, online qualifications etc.
My personal experience is that it attracts better quality jobs at better rates, though I'm sure everyone has had different experiences.
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:09 pm
by alex.barylski
Fast, Good, Cheap -- pick two!!!
Hiring a developer for $10/hour...do the math...
That is not to say that hiring a developer who charges $100/hour is going to result in quality work...but the fact remains...oDesk attracts developers who will hammer out a solution ASAP taking as many shortcuts as possible.
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:16 pm
by mad_phpq
hmmm. Dont think i'd like to take up my freetime and only get $10 an hour. What other ones are out there?
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:15 pm
by alex.barylski
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=PHP ... ites&meta=
The thing is...all the people who find those sites are looking for cheap software development ($25 or less).
Finding people not on a budget right now is going to be quite difficult and will require serious business savvy -- recession = money saving tactics.
Put it this way, in my experience, when they find 'you' their looking for affordable software development and usually have a budget of less than $5G. It's not uncommon for these projects to stretch into 2-3 months if your not careful so $5G/month quickly turns into $1200/month which is only $7.5/hour basically minimum wage.
I quit doing freelance for that reason as I wasn't business savvy enough to request more money as changes were introduced.
Freelancing is a lot of work...communicating with the clients is time they usually don't expect to have to pay for but if the project is to be a success, plan on spending 5-6 hours per week in phone conversations, email, etc.
Ideally you land a freelance contract where you essentially work for $5G/month and what they get at months end is what they get...unfortunately most people are not looking to spend $5G/month but instead 3-4K on a completed project.
Be ware of using frameworks like Joomla as a way of quickly developing software. While the extension database is huge (4K+ projects) most are garbage, half complete, buggy, insecure, and difficult to extend or modify to meet a clients unique requirements.
I have fallen victim to Joomla marketing a few times in the past and while building a component from scratch is fairly easy and does expedite the development time significantly, it's not as great as the Joomla marketers would like you to believe.
Using something like Zend would be great but to build a full scale CMS and web application would be a monumental task and well outside the budget of most people looking for freelance work.
What I strongly suggest is you compile a database of open source applications and when a client asks for a forum, you give them phpBB or punBB or Vanilla and you charge them $500 for the install and very basic integration or theming. Anything extra and you explain it's going to cost them additional by the hour.
It's about the only way to make money doing freelance. Good luck.
Cheers,
Alex
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:28 pm
by greyhoundcode
Well yeah I kind of agree with that PCSpectra - all I'd really add from personal experience is that you can hammer out a better deal on ODesk, and to a lesser extent PeoplePerHour.com, than say php-freelancers.com and the many other freelance sites, not that I'd want to denigrate them too much.
If you're using them then you have to resign yourself to doing a job on the cheap to some degree, but then better to have some money in than no money in.
One last thing I'd chip in is that fluency in written and spoken English, as well as being located in the UK (or US/Canada, depending on the contract) can be currency in itself.
Ultimately you can give it a go and if you don't think the remuneration is sufficient you don't even need to complete the task, it is an escrow service after all - that might not be moral but it's practical.
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:41 pm
by alex.barylski
In all honesty I haven't used a free lance site for years although I did/do get frequent inqueries from people who find me on this site and others like this.
They are all the same kind of client, they're looking for a partnership/relationship with a single developer and do not have the budget for a company/team of developers. It's easier to rook a single developer with no business sense than it is a business savvy sales rep for a actual software factory.
Freelance is incredibly easy to get into (just undercut the next guy and have a few demo projects and your a shoe in) but very difficult to get out of once you dive in head first. If you stop to find a job, you start losing time/money so you basically have to work around the clock.
I would average about $25-35/hour with clients who found me via an article, code, project, forum, etc...whereas I suspect that people who find you on a freelance site are looking for a much better deal and are less aware of what makes for quality software.
My best advice would be, if your going to go at freelance, don't do it alone. Have a friend or two join forces with you, one of you being far more business savvy and the other more technical. Negotiating is not easy, especially when you are a timid developer that just wants to work on software.
The perception of value changes in your favour when your a 'team' and the cost will naturally increase, clients know this so it's an excellent way to weed out the cheap clients from the ones willing to pay for professional services.
Even as a small team, if you can charge $25-35/hour that is a pretty decent income (at least where I am) but you have to make sure you actually get paid that much for every hour you put in. As a sole developer it's far to easy to be persuaded into giving out freebies (intentionally or not).
Cheers,
Alex
Re: oDesk
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:15 pm
by mad_phpq
thank you. thats all great advice. I especially agree with you when you say partnering with someone would be more beneficial. Thanks for you help.