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Recent Degradation of Forum Etiquette

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:51 am
by Brian
I have noticed a disappointing trend in these forums lately: poor etiquette. There have been far too many rude and irrelevant posts. I have been using these forums almost since they were opened the the public--mine was the fifteenth account to be created--and yet my post count remains low because I focus my participation on fruitful, on-topic discussions and avoid the more inane ones. This has usually been easy to do because the poor etiquette that plagues most venues for Internet discussion has seemed less overwhelming in these forums, but this is no longer the case.

Is it too much to ask for people to read other people's posts well enough to understand them then to reply courteously and relevantly? Is there anything the forum administrators and moderators can do to encourage better etiquette amongst forum participants?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:02 am
by patrikG
Hi Brian,

there has been quite a vivid discussion amongst the moderators about that and how to improve the quality of the posts and prevent mind boggling repetition of questions.

If you're specifically refering to this discussion: http://www.devnetwork.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=102613 - yes, it got a wee bit personal, but nothing that can't happen in a normal discussion.

Generally, I agree with you, Brian.

The solution we are working on are FAQtorials as well as posting guidelines for each and every forum. If you have suggestions as to how to improve the forum: please, do post or pm!

Some Ideas

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:44 am
by Brian
patrikG wrote:If you have suggestions as to how to improve the forum: please, do post or pm!
Have you considered post ratings, thread ratings, or a karma system? That might help people avoid some of the garbage.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:23 pm
by m3mn0n
Brian wrote:my post count remains low because I focus my participation on fruitful, on-topic discussions and avoid the more inane ones. This has usually been easy to do because the poor etiquette that plagues most venues for Internet discussion has seemed less overwhelming in these forums, but this is no longer the case.
110 posts after 730 days being a member, eh? I don't think your post count is attributed to the lack of quality topics, rather a lack of participation on your part. :roll:

I could rack up that many posts within a weekend in "fruitful" and "on-topic" discussions in this forum. So please don't take a shot at the integrity of this community based on a couple bad experiences.

If you honestly believe that this place has such an abundant supply of inferior discussions you obviously have tunnel vision, and you need to get off your high horse and explore more.
Brian wrote:Is there anything the forum administrators and moderators can do to encourage better etiquette amongst forum participants?
We can do nothing more than ask people to read the guidelines at their own discretion.

Please stop.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:03 pm
by Brian
Sami, your post is short-sighted and needlessly insulting and it drags the conversation away from the topic. Please stop.

My concerns obviously do not regard PHPDN as a whole, but rather the occasionally rude and abusive participants such as Unipus and you.

By the way, Sami, what you posted is called an ad hominem attack; essentially, that means you are attacking me instead of addressing my argument. You might want to read up on that and ponder it a bit to empower yourself to post a more relevant reply than the last one.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:10 am
by roRisc
I have to add the fact that tech forums are very well organized and mentained, mostly due to the fact that questions are case-oriented.

Just wait 'till you land on some regional community forum of village X where.. in 5 posts, under the same thread more then 10 ideas have been discussed.

I am mantaining such a site.. :) heh. and I delete.. 3 of every 5 posts.

I agree with Sami when he says - We can do nothing more than ask people to read the guidelines at their own discretion.
but I'll most certainly leave only that line after edditing out the flame. :D

I belive we can make our users more pollite not through enforcing (works only for todlers) but making them aware of the bad language their using.. etc.

I keep these 2 lines in my signature (and I've noticed some improvement):
On this site everybody is right! - promotes equality
Dear collegues... let's first try to act human - maybe too harsh for a well moderated site like DN. :D

just my view on this...
thanks. :)

Re: Please stop.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:11 am
by m3mn0n
Brian wrote:Sami, your post is short-sighted and needlessly insulting and it drags the conversation away from the topic. Please stop.
It's neither short-sighted, nor needless insulting. I gave you my opinion on this topic, and I also addressed the issue.
Brian wrote:My concerns obviously do not regard PHPDN as a whole, but rather the occasionally rude and abusive participants such as Unipus and you.
You worded your argument in a way that it did attack the PHPDN as a whole. As a passionate member of this forum, I take that pretty seriously. If you find that rude, fine. But to call me abusive for giving my opinion on this? That's pushing it.

I posted what I did because I noticed something that was not right. I have no apologies for pointing out something that needed to be highlighted.
Brian wrote:By the way, Sami, what you posted is called an ad hominem attack; essentially, that means you are attacking me instead of addressing my argument. You might want to read up on that and ponder it a bit to empower yourself to post a more relevant reply than the last one.
Please. Don't insult my intelligence.

Re: Please stop.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:39 am
by Brian
I would address your entire OFF-TOPIC post, but sadly, I fear it would be a futile effort as your emotional disposition seems to preclude rational discussion. I will, however, address one particularly irresponsible and obviously incorrect assertion you made:
Sami wrote:You worded your argument in a way that it did attack the PHPDN as a whole.
Your assessment of my intent was incorrect before and it remains so now. Unless you are a clairvoyant--some kind of psychic--you should refrain from stating otherwise, particularly after I have clarified my intent.

Emotion has no place in technical discussion forums beyond the pleasure that comes from overcoming a challenge; too much emotion in discussions is part of the problem about which I posted in the first place. As is reading for understanding. Do you see the irony here?

Re: Please stop.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:50 am
by Brian
I changed my mind, Sami; I will add one thing more: you do not seem to understand etiquette--let alone value it--so I submit that establishing your position has been sufficient for your participation in this particular discussion. Thank you sharing your position on the matter.

Make that two things more; here is the second: despite your apparent insults toward me, I mean no insult to your intelligence, but only offer information to expand your knowledge and improve your communication skills. That is my gift to you because I so value courteous discourse. I look forward to participating with you in courteous, intelligent discussions about other topics in the future.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:58 am
by patrikG
patrikG wrote:there has been quite a vivid discussion amongst the moderators about that and how to improve the quality of the posts and prevent mind boggling repetition of questions.
I think I misunderstood your original post somewhat, Brian. What I had in mind when I wrote this statement was how to increase the quality of posts here - which did spark a vivid discussion among moderators.
patrikG wrote:If you're specifically refering to this discussion: http://www.devnetwork.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=102613 - yes, it got a wee bit personal, but nothing that can't happen in a normal discussion.
Brian - could you tell me what makes your posts different from what you are complaining about? If you're trying to lead by example: I fail to see that. I see quite the opposite.

This thread is locked now.