Ok, the red line has been crossed..

We know you have an opinion on how things should be run around here. These are suggestions for the forums, and the website.This forum is not a place to ask for suggestions to your own coding (or otherwise) problems.

Moderator: General Moderators

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Todd_Z
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Post by Todd_Z »

onion2k wrote:
Todd_Z wrote:I get those people too, i figure anyone with more than 500 posts has gotten that at least a hand full of time, but couldn't it be something simple like "my pm is not a free resource for help, however I'm available for hire", whereas the www link would be to a site about his pricing information? It just doesn't seem appropriate to see it everytime he posts. I'm not trying to bash, I'm just saying its not appropriate. For the most part I am happy with this forum, i visit about 10 times a day, but sometimes mods do things to make me :evil: .
Feyd's pricing signature is to put spurious people off PMing about work. Those of us who are admin and have a relatively high post count don't want work requests unless they're serious. Putting "I'm available for hire" in my sig would at least quadruple the number of PMs I get for "Please write this application for me. My budget is $50." jobs. I don't take on any jobs for less than about $15,000 these days, even for a small site. I don't want to invite these offers. I'm very tempted to do the same as Feyd sometimes.

It might seem inappropriate to you, but for those of us who get dozens of requests out of the blue it's one simple line of defence.
fair enough i guess. I'll pick my battles
timvw
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Post by timvw »

- I think everyone makes a mistake once in a while... So i don't think we should blame Patrick G for this one... Since the ratio of good/bad things is incredibly positive :) (and that counts for all the moderators i know).

- Given the flood of people abusing you as their personal helpdesk via instant messaging i can understand why users have decided to remove their handles completely.
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah »

good...now that all the fighting has ended you know what i think...i think we should all get back to some good ole
php coding and help:) but first lets all sing a song...

kum-by-yah moddies kum-by-yah
dont smurfslap newbies moddies kum-by-yah

sorry guys dont get offended...but thats the longest ive ever been serious...i couldent hold it back anymore :lol:
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

ob... were you saying I was unhelpful or that I was helpful? I couldn't really make it out. :?
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah »

helpfull...the advice on sessions helped me out alot...i was giving you, volka, and the mods a shout out(or a thanx for helping me) i was also gonna post a link to my current php question post but i figured i better not...lol
Last edited by Obadiah on Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maugrim_The_Reaper
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Post by Maugrim_The_Reaper »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:jeeeeeeze! I had no idea people were so unhappy with this forum...
I think it's one of those times when one inflamatory post sets the whole forum on fire. ;) Maybe its highlighted some things, maybe it's just attracted some Mod bashing, maybe it'll encourage people to consider both sides of each story. As with any forum with this one's membership numbers there are bound to be a few conflicts...

I think it's gone a bit awry at this point...
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Chris Corbyn
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Post by Chris Corbyn »

Todd_Z wrote:
feyd wrote: My PM link is not your hotline for answers. If you want personal, private attention, pay me. $250 per hour for the first two hours, $200 for each hour after. Two hour minimum.
Is that offensive to anyone else? I think its rather inappropriate to parade around your payment structure in your signature line. We get it feyd, you know your stuff.
I bet you I can find other members with that same sentiment in their signatures. I'm now makning a point of stepping back away from this thread. I would like it to continue so we can all know what's going on and what you all think; I'll respond where necessary but I think this is all a little unjust. In fact, the thread has already crossed into personal attacks although I feel it should be left as is due to the nature of the thread.

I really am disappointed that we're even having this dicsussion though. We try ur best, that's all we can do.
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Luke
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Post by Luke »

d11... don't be discouraged (if you are). I think it's just a little too easy to take things the wrong way on the internet because one can't really be sure how they come off on the internet. I think the majority of the posters here feel that you are all doing a wonderful job. :D

Once again... I'm not trying to be a kiss-ass... I honestly think you guys work very hard at making this place the best it can be... and on top of that, you guys still manage to find the time to help people like me learn. Thanks! :D :D
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Jenk
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Post by Jenk »

Although this appears to be what is actually under discussion, I would like to add I think it is very important for members to acknowledge that the moderators are not warning you, or removing your posts from a personal standpoint. They are not deliberately trying to tick you off. They are merely upholding the rules of these boards as the best of their ability. Equally the moderators should hopefully acknowledge that complaints are (usually) not aimed at them, but are aimed at the rules themselves.

Much like an employee in just about any customer facing role, will have to deal with irate customers (lord knows I have to..) The customer is angry with the company in most situations, or the service provided but take it out on the employee because they are wearing the badge.
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

The Ninja Space Goat wrote:While I agree sometimes the mods can be a little condescending, I honestly can say that one of the main reasons I come here instead of another forum is that the rules are enforced completely and without discrimination. I have no complaint as far as how this site is moderated. I'm not being a kiss-ass, I truely think this place is ran very well. (sorry to disagree, cuz I like ya astions :( )
Dude...your generalizing...your being discriminatory :P

Seriously though, mods is generalizing...d11 and Everah I have no problems with...i'm not familiar with all the mods, but there are a few who I have to question...
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

I'm making this another post, not to irritate mods, but because I feel it important enough to seperate, but not completely from the original topic.

My post in regards to feyd possibly being dropped from the mod list, appears to be gone? It's possible I just over looked it, if so, please send me a link, I'll publically apologize. If not, I have to ask...

What kind of open community is this?

Like I already said, to my knowledge, there has been no public vote...so democracy goes out the window. When I first started visiting this site, I found some mods to be way to enthusiastic/zealous to the cause.

A while back I sarcastically attempted to start a quasi-programming challenge. The challenege was legitamate but I was publically denounced by feyd with a brief sentance along the lines (not verbatim):
Don't even think about using OUR name
Our to suggest "us" the community not him feyd. So where did I go wrong? I polled the community and if I remember correctly, it was a pretty even split I think even teetering in my favour. And still feyd and his hammer came down.

feyd, has a framework he's working on (solely as far as I can tell) called the DNA (Developers Network Architecture) or something to that effect...

I don't recall voting him capable of completing such a task or that I wanted the community (run by the people; that includes me) to be associated with it...

So I ask, did feyd clear this framework with every single moderator? Did you have an actual vote?

I would argue, I spend pretty close to the same amount of time as feyd on this web site, if not answering technical questions in the code forum, atleast more time replying to Theory & Design and General. I share links, offers notices and more. So I consider my importance to the community to be on the same level as his, minus any ability to moderate these forums.

So where is the difference? It is because feyd is a moderator and I am not. His friends and buddies are moderators whereas I have the respect of only a few - if any moderators.

I should note, that a moderator vote should *not* really count, as it's clear your a tight knit group of friends who all have respect for each other (BTW: It's not typically a good thing for people in power to share common opinions - there goes debate and any chance for change).

This is made obvious by some double standards I have personally observed. A community vote would be more appropriate. This is just one example that personally struck me as WTF material, but I'm sure given time I could gather up some more.

I have chosen to make this public because it is a concern of the community as a whole. People do *not* come to an "open" public forum to receive censored answers, so this should be publically known.

Clearly I'm not the only member who feels this way, so I suggest looking into these issues before myself and others start blogging about it.

On second thought, seeing as how my opinions vary so drastically from most others on here, perhaps I should be given moderator status, if the spirit of open source and everything "free" that it advocates.

Or do moderators get voted in by other moderators??? Cause that wouldn't make democratic sense would it?

Cheers :)
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Weirdan
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Post by Weirdan »

Hockey, couldn't you summarize your concerns in one single paragraph with about 100 words in it please? Your posts are so long and vague it's almost a pain to read them.

To answer your specific question (the only I could dig from your post, if there were more please point them out):
Hockey wrote: Or do moderators get voted in by other moderators???
Yes, of course.
Hockey wrote: Cause that wouldn't make democratic sense would it?
Devnetwork was oligarchic society from day zero. Btw, most open source projects are oligarchic as well.

And please don't get into politics here (e.g. democracy vs oligarchy in general sense). As you certainly know, it would be against our rules.
alex.barylski
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Post by alex.barylski »

Weirdan wrote:Hockey, couldn't you summarize your concerns in one single paragraph with about 100 words in it please? Your posts are so long and vague it's almost a pain to read them.

To answer your specific question (the only I could dig from your post, if there were more please point them out):
Hockey wrote: Or do moderators get voted in by other moderators???
Yes, of course.
Hockey wrote: Cause that wouldn't make democratic sense would it?set in stone.
Devnetwork was oligarchic society from day zero. Btw, most open source projects are oligarchic as well.

And please don't get into politics here (e.g. democracy vs oligarchy in general sense). As you certainly know, it would be against our rules.
Fare enough, however I suggest formalizing your rules a little more and defining what a open community is and how it differs from a proprietary community, which is still open to the public for free... :P

Edit: It appears I have been misguided. Nowhere on this site does it say anything about this being a publically run forum. Or a forum run by the community, etc...

This was the impression I was under, but clearly I was wrong and I accept that and officially apologize. I will play by your rules and no longer challenge any which have been clearly stipulated.

Regards :D
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s.dot
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Post by s.dot »

I think this is a topic that would've been better discussed in private.
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Benjamin
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Post by Benjamin »

I really didn't want to make a post like this, but I wanted to see if others felt the same way as me. I think that based on the responses, people are on the fence about it. Some of the comments I made were a bit brash, so I want to apologize to feyd and patrikG about that. My original post is the result of months of pent of frustration of things I have seen.

I think that perhaps clarifying the rules would be a good solution. Obviously if someone posts a CD key to software application, the post would be removed. If someone posts copyrighted content in it's entirety, it should be removed. But if someone posts a snippet of copyrighted content for discussion, one could argue that it falls under fair use. What if someone posts a link to a site that has a link to a site with copyrighted content? The line needs to be drawn somewhere if possible.

I think sometimes posts are made that are a bit harsh in response to newbie members. Toning that down a bit, and maybe explaining the reasoning behind warnings might me a good thing as well.

As far as the posting PM's on the mod boards for review, that really does need to be an automated system. It would appear that purging the original message from the database and modifying it when posting it to the admin board would be quite easy.

Lastly, removing posts such as this or the one Hockey made shouldn't be allowed. We are Devnet. We the members. We should not be censored when expressing ourselves. As far as I know there are not any rules that say you can't bash the mods. That would be similar to how China regulates its population.
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