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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:45 pm
by volka
astions wrote:As far as I know there are not any rules that say you can't bash the mods.
a) That's the point of view that everything not explicitly forbidden is allowed. I disagree on this one. And there's always common sense.
b) What makes bashing worth protecting?
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:27 pm
by Burrito
I have stayed out of this for the most part with the exception of a few PMs to astions to try and clear the air. I come home from work to read all this garbage that has collected throughout the day and I'm sick.
I'm shocked and appalled at a lot of you. Astions, the reason your post was removed was because it violated a rule. Since when do you think it's ok to make personal attacks on any member of this community (mod or not). It has nothing to do with censorship, it has to do with respecting your peers and acting like an adult. There is no way in hell that this dirty laundry should have been aired out here. If anyone has a problem with any other member of this community, it needs to be addressed with one of the moderators. If it happens to be a moderator with whom you have beef, then take it up with a different one.
I honestly can not belive the lashing you guys have issued to feyd and for what? For enforcing the rules that (for the most part) have been here since this site was established? Don't bite the hand that feeds you and you're god damn right that he has fed every single one of you....maybe not with direct coding help, but his tireless effort to keep this board running the way that it is. feyd has over 7% of the posts on this board and how many of them do you think are about him? I'd dare guess that it's less than 1% (of his posts). That means that 99% of 7% of the posts on this board are either posts providing you all assistance, or posts keeping this board in order.
Hockey, to compare yourself to feyd is definitely comparing apples to oranges. I won't go into this further, but rest assured, there is no comparison.
I'll reiterate, if any of you have problems with the way this site is being operated, then take it up with one of the mods and we'll do our best to 'fix' the problem. If you think it's something more global (like a rule change) then post a suggestion in the suggestion board, if that's not enough to satisfy you, then find another place to be. None of you are tethered here and you choose to come to this board for a reason. Ask yourself what that reason is, then go see if you can find that reason on a different forum. If you can, then have a nice life, if not, then respect whatever it is that gives you your reason.
revolted,
Burrito
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:40 pm
by Benjamin
Burrito, A majority of the posts in this forum have actually been quite rational. Your attitude towards this situation makes me not want to post here any more. I'm tired of garbage like that. This might very well be my last post.
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:12 pm
by Burrito
astions wrote:Burrito, A majority of the posts in this forum have actually been quite rational. Your attitude towards this situation makes me not want to post here any more.
Are you suggesting that my response was not rational? My 'attitude' toward this situation was fueled by your lack of consideration to other members on this forum in a completely irrational way....sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black.
astions wrote:I'm tired of garbage like that. This might very well be my last post.
garbage? I simply try to express a better way of dealing with situations like this and to stand up for someone who has been completely unjustifiably targeted and that's construed as garbage. I think you need to take a look at this from a wider angle astions.
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:38 pm
by patrikG
Guys,
what's going on here?
First you start feyd-bashing about his signature(!!!) of all things, you don't even formulate what the core of the issue is, you just look for what you perceive as a weak spot and hit it. Guys, sorry, but that is not just disappointing. That's just plain disgusting.
Do you have
any idea what feyd has put into this discussion board? Apparently you do not and that's why you start this seriously cheap flaming.
Then someone comes along and says: "Amigos, I'm the next feyd." I'm seriously at a loss of words. "The next feyd". That's cheek at the very, very least.
Thanks for your apology, astions - I think feyd can do better with it than I, but thanks.
Astions wrote:As far as I know there are not any rules that say you can't bash the mods. That would be similar to how China regulates its population.
No, there won't ever be and that's good. I think you would agree that your public demeanour influences your environment and vice versa. Now - and I mean this generally, directed at everyone here - what kind of environment would you like and how can your behaviour influence that it so that it becomes more of a reality?
I think those of you who cry out loudest should take at least two steps back, sit down and take a couple of breaths. What has been posted here is hugely inflammatory, but at least this tension that has been bubbling up on this forum for some months now has come out in the open and we can address it.
Please remember, though: do it politely and with the insight that every position has it's downsides and negatives.
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:08 pm
by Buddha443556
Wow! I'm so glad I miss this thread!

[Exit stage left.]
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:59 am
by Chris Corbyn
Can I just pick up on a point which was made a handful of posts back. The Moderators are not "a tight-knit bunch of friends" who "share a common opinion". I can tell you with 100% certainty that a lot of the discussion we have behind the scenes is heated, democratic discussion. We often disagree on lots of things and there are *always* discussions about new rules and issues on the board. Some of our longer standing regular members can probably remember a very extreme example of disagrements we've had in the past. We try to keep things sailing smoothly along and 99% of the time you (rightly) wouldn't even think about it.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:13 am
by daedalus__
Moderators are real people, too.
In my opinion, this thread is stupid.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:50 am
by alex.barylski
OMG I'm taking my soccer ball and going home
For real, I wasn't bashing feyd...well it might have seemed that way...
1) Do I find his style of answering some posts arrogant...yup...
2) Do I find his answers helpful...once or twice...like anyone else he's gonna have better insight in some areas than others...it's why I come to a online community...
3) Do I find his personally irritating? Not sure I don't know him personally...I'm sure at a bar I could buy him a beer at a bar and be done with it...have a good time...and so on.
The fact is...he's in a position of power and he isn't the "friendliest" person I've met or most humble in his style...which is fine...but when in public spotlight, as an actress or actor or athlete or other...and you do something that irritates the public...you kind of have to expect to be publically critisized or scrutinized.
There is a fine line between voicing your concerns about a moderator or two and bashing a moderator.
I don't recall ever "bashing" feyd, I made some analogies and brought some points of interest to attention, which I felt were important for public intake/awareness purposes and moderator review.
The fact you guys are having these problems and it's *not* just me...and the fact these problems have occured in the past tells me something...I don't know what it tells you.
Cheers

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:05 am
by Maugrim_The_Reaper
Just like to point out that short seemingly "arrogant" posts are 99% of the time the result of brevity - and nothing to do with any personal attitude. Not everyone has the time to write a larger response.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:09 am
by patrikG
Hockey wrote:There is a fine line between voicing your concerns about a moderator or two and bashing a moderator.
And you are way over on the bashing side.
Hockey wrote:1) Do I find his style of answering some posts arrogant...yup...
2) Do I find his answers helpful...once or twice...like anyone else he's gonna have better insight in some areas than others...it's why I come to a online community...
3) Do I find his personally irritating? Not sure I don't know him personally...I'm sure at a bar I could buy him a beer at a bar and be done with it...have a good time...and so on.
Hockey: it is
utterly irrelevant whether or not you like "feyd's personality" or not. This board is
not about your ego, nor about his nor about anyone elses. I'ts about PHP. Maybe it's time you remembered that.
You start throwing stones - for what reason? What is your problem? Have the mods been too harsh on you? Are you holding a personal grudge against some of us and feyd in particular?
Stop this alluding, hinting and "fine line walking" and spill the beans, now. This is as good an opportunity as you get. If you do not, stop the scaremongering, self-victimisation and better-than-thou attitude. It could well be that it's time for you to ego-vent somewhere else.
If you can't, not even now, formulate something more sustantial than "I don't like feyd's personality" then I'm asking you: is that why you're kicking up such a fuss? Because a SiteAdmin is not 100% the kind of guy you want to hang out with? Come on, we both know there's more to it: spill it and do it here and now.
[url=http://forums.devnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?t=30037]Forum Rules[/url] Section 1.3 wrote:13. A wide variety of opinions may be expressed on this public discussion forum. Respect positions which differ from your own. We like to see a vigorous intellectual discussion which proceeds politely and addresses the technical merits of different positions. Do not expect that anyone will alter their opinion of a topic regardless of however logical you believe your argument to be. Do not attack anyone personally for whatever reason - doing so contravenes the spirit in which this forum was founded and can have serious consequences.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:45 am
by volka
Just for the record: I really appreciate the work of feyd and the other moderators.
If you feel treated unfairly remember that a deleted, moved, edited post or a short hint to do better next time isn't destroying art or a life's work.
And the example
viewtopic.php?t=56090 shows that you can reason with the moderators.
But you have to do it before you feel like "the line is crossed" "i'm leaving" or it gets you nowhere.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:40 am
by Buddha443556
Daedalus- wrote:Moderators are real people, too.
Yes. All of whom which have responsibilities beyond this forum. All of whom which have pressure and stress that has nothing to do with anything going on here. All of whom which have volunteered to help run this forum and enforce the rules. A thankless job, they actually volunteered to take.
We often disagree on lots of things and there are *always* discussions about new rules and issues on the board. Some of our longer standing regular members can probably remember a very extreme example of disagrements we've had in the past.
Programmers can be extremely opinionated. We really haven't had any heated public arguments since the "McGruff Incident" and that probably has something to do with the moderators. That and nobody wants a repeat of the past. I know I've changed my ways. We all have a enough stress in my life without looking for extra here. Let the moderator do their jobs and remember there are real people behind every post even those from moderators.
I hope no one leaves.

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:01 am
by asgerhallas
Is this leading to some sort design pattern for on-line developer communities? Or is it just a way to increase your post counts?
Although it from a sociological point of view is kind of interesting to follow this thread and see how hard it is keep it nice and peaceful even in a well driven and small community like this, I - as a relatively new member here - don't really get why all you seemingly friendly and well educated people are using so much energy on picking and fighting... and especially why you're having this fight "in front of the kids".
Of course everybody is allowed to speak free, if not here, then by PM or on some other forum or somewhere else on the web. But I like to come here because the site is well moderated, I go here to find answers that I cannot find anywhere else because of too much unneccessary nonsense. I could go anywhere else if I wanted a "political" discussion or wanted to express my self.
Oh, how I hope you would moderate this thread to vanish!
One post closer to "Programmer"...

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:56 am
by feyd
All I'll say at this point is, the only offensive comment I've found, toward myself, in this entire thread is being called condescending. Everything else, is your opinion, to which you're entitled and therefore I am generally fine with.
Calling me arrogant, for example. I will be the first to admit it; yes I am arrogant, as is everyone who has skill at programming. Programmers need arrogance to do what they do. There's no way around that.