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 Post subject: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:38 am 
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DevNet Master
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Ahh PHP, it was the language that taught me how to program but alas all good things come to an end and all technologies are ultimately superceded but other, newer, better, technologies.
Syntax: [ Download ] [ Hide ]
define('CHANGE', true);
define('EVOLUTION', true);
count(get_defined_constants()) == 2; // change and evolution are the only constants
and as such I am now almost entirely a ruby convert. PHP is glorious in it's familiarity and community but now relegated the title of bastard child. I've noticed that this is an accelerating trend. I know other long term members have moved into Ruby and Python, and beyond. Jenk is coding in SmallTalk and I've been blogging about have Erlang could be really important in the future.

I really don't want DevNet to die with PHP. I'd like to see discussions about other languages become a mainstream feature of the boards. Obviously this would be a very big step for PHPDN and would involve significant rebranding but also inject a whole load of new life into the boards.

What do you say?


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:13 am 
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Jedi Mod
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Ollie Saunders wrote:
I really don't want DevNet to die with PHP.

:lol:

Oh wait, you were serious.

PHP isn't going to die off any time soon. Don't be daft.

As for expanding to other languages ... I don't think that's a good idea to be honest. We don't have enough people here who could actually be helpful, and getting people who do know other languages to post here would be very difficult because this forum is known as a PHP oriented place. Why would people come here instead of going to a Ruby or a Smalltalk board? By expanding I can see us adding a bunch of boards that would remain very quiet ... that would detract from the PHP side because this place wouldn't appear as good.

Perhaps the way forward is to start RubyDN, and then merge it with PHPDN in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:21 pm 
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I pretty much agree with onion2k.

As Mark Twain said, "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:11 pm 
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All indications are that PHP is just becoming more dominant... there will always be migration of developers from one language to another, each finds the one he is most comfortable with. As you and others have migrated to ruby, python and others, some users of those language have migrated to PHP, most definitely.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:39 pm 
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PHP is moving into the ranks of a java or .NET language. More and more companies are starting to quickly move into PHP environments. That is not to say that they are not also open to other languages, and the movement to Python and Ruby is just as strong though not as widespread.

I think that more tech based companies are starting to realize the validity of PHP as an enterprise level language. The community, which has been growing since 1994 roughly, is starting to outgrow the realms of the script kiddie and hobbyist into the world of the real enterprise level programmer. That, in itself, is giving PHP a ton of credibility and opening a huge market for PHP developers.

I am sure that python, ruby, smalltalk, erlang and all the other popular programming languages of today will come to a point where companies are aggressively seeking out programmers of that type. Until then, PHP has a pretty solid position in the programming world. And as such, our community provides PHP based assistance.

Don't get me wrong. I have always thought that a developers network, not just a PHP developers network, would be a great idea. But as onion said, taking the PHP focus off of what we have would only serve to hurt those that are looking specifically for PHP help.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:34 pm 
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RubyDN...interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:24 pm 
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OK this is my hang out now, I think. Cya! :-)
No no, I'll still be around probably, like a ghost, or something...


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Sorry to sound so PHP arrogant, but I find it amusing that a Rails forum would use an application written in PHP. :D


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Everah wrote:
Sorry to sound so PHP arrogant, but I find it amusing that a Rails forum would use an application written in PHP. :D
Oh yeah, I noticed that too. Well PHP has been around a fair bit longer and is still cheaper and easier to host so it's not all that surprising really.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am 
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I know. I just thought a friendly jab was appropriate. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Sure, well I was reading Coding Horror last night where he was saying that PHP is a terrible language and I was feeling myself get offended so obviously there's still something inside me that likes PHP. I mean I know it so well, I've spent so many years coding in it. I don't want to feel like they were a waste.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:19 am 
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So do you have anything else to support your point then the fact that you and one or two other people you know have switched to another language?

I mean, I know about Ruby and Python, but looking around, like 99% of the webhosts support PHP and no rails, 99% of the developers do either PHP and/or Java, most webapps I know are PHP/Mysql, many jobs ads are for PHP developers and none for ruby, etc.
I know .Net is quite big as well (mostly with microsoft-invaded corporate clients I think).

Of course, this "view" is totally subjective, but my guess is so is yours ;)


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:56 am 
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Although I haven't said as much yet my opinion has been altered by the comments made in response to my original post. I don't think PHP is going to go away any time soon.

All I know is that I really like ruby. In fact, having seen the other side, the thought of programming in PHP, or Java for that matter, fills me with dread. Namespaces in 5.3 improve things a bit but PHP is missing too many important features and I can't stand the lack of respect for OO, writing getters/setters endless and the wanky syntax.

Quote:
I mean, I know about Ruby and Python, but looking around, like 99% of the webhosts support PHP and no rails, 99% of the developers do either PHP and/or Java, most webapps I know are PHP/Mysql, many jobs ads are for PHP developers and none for ruby, etc.
I know .Net is quite big as well (mostly with microsoft-invaded corporate clients I think).
Are those definitive, well researched, figures or did you just pull them out of the air?


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:01 am 
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Ollie Saunders wrote:
Quote:
I mean, I know about Ruby and Python, but looking around, like 99% of the webhosts support PHP and no rails, 99% of the developers do either PHP and/or Java, most webapps I know are PHP/Mysql, many jobs ads are for PHP developers and none for ruby, etc.
I know .Net is quite big as well (mostly with microsoft-invaded corporate clients I think).
Are those definitive, well researched, figures or did you just pull them out of the air?


They are definitive, well researched, hard facts, yes.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:00 pm
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Languages or technologies only die when they don't adapt or are not cut out for a newer, gearter demand task. Look at C++ it's still going strong, unlike Pascal and others like it.

Sometimes, the best language doesn't even win. Personally there were some features about Pascal I really liked, it was a very structured, clean language, yet more people stuck with C++.

PHP is not going anywhere soon...too much code...to much legacy...like C/C++ applications will not be ported to MC++ over night...

I think keeping the community centered around PHP or rather the LAMP stack is best...otherwise communities get bloated and grow out of control. I don't like Sitepoint because it tries to hard to be to much...

Ruby and Rails I think are a fad...new technology to experiment with "real" agile development and XP. That accounts for a small number of developers world wide. Most programmers care less about TDD/BDD or even writing good code, just look at open source projects. :P

Python is like the object oriented replacement for Perl...I see it no where except in Trac...everything else is PHP baby. :D

Java will continue it's battle for supremacy in the mobile market...C/C++ will continue to dominate in both Linux and Windows desktop development...PHP will reign king as web development environment (building dynamic web pages mostly) Perl will die a slow painful death cause of all the legacy scripts probably floating aorund for *nix. Python is a good experimental language when your tired of the procedural techniques of Perl.

Yup...PHP ain't going no where's my friend. Saying it'll be shadowed by Ruby or Python or ASP is like suggesting Shell scripting will replace Lisp. :P


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