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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:27 am 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:10 am 
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In Silicon Valley, where all the geeks live, work and play ( :wink: ) the demand for programmers is huge. When I say programmers I mean anyone that can code C, Java, PHP, Ruby, Python, Perl or just about any other language.

When it comes down to it, if you have learned the principals of programming, language becomes just syntax. Logic and process drives what you program. Generally speaking if you know the concept of making an app do what you want you need only learn the core of what the language you need to program in offers to make it work for you/your client/your company.

Ruby is very popular right now. It is like the new kid in school that everyone kinda wants to get close enough to to check out who they are without getting so close that they are accused of associated with him. It is a very clean language (as is Python - neither of which I have programmed in but both of which I have read code from). If you can get good at the language the better off you are. Get good at as many as you can. It can only help you in the long run.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:28 am 
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I wrote a reply elsewhere about programming trends. PHP has been relatively stable for a while (TIOBE Index) with a consistent number of commits to open source projects (measured by Ohloh). Ruby has seen the same thing with one big difference - it stabilised last year well below Python and PHP.

The apparent truth is that Ruby is driven largely by Rails - and Rails in a vacuum was incredible making Ruby a hugely attractive language. Now the vacuum is filling up with the likes of Django and PHP's usual numberless variants, and Rails has lost a lot of its attraction to developers considering moving to another language. Why move to Ruby if you already know Python and can jump on Django? Why move from PHP when you have CakePHP, Symfony and the other one I contribute to? There are fewer reasons these days.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:42 am 
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Hehehe, I read this after pondering the question of how to mangle PHPSpec with the upcoming PHP 5.3 lambdas and closures...;). I wouldn't call Ruby a fad either - It's stable not decreasing in popularity. Though I did see a recent Rails blog post about the recent downturn in Rails blog posts over the last year.

You reading planetrubyonrails.com too?


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:58 pm 
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I hate to sound harsh, but do we really want to add an area to these forums to attract people who will harp on and on that PHP is dying and sucks? ;)

I think the PHP programming members would be open, and even interested, to the idea of Ruby and Python forums here. I think in the past it has been first a matter of focus maintaining a focus to DevNetwork. We can't do and be everything. We are mainly a forum for PHP programmers and other forums better serve programmers of other languages. Second is the vocal antagonism directed toward PHP from programmers of other languages. Would the mix enhance the level of discussion here or just be a source of endless flame wars?

Given the potential downsides, what do people think about having Ruby and Python forums here?

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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:07 pm 
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I think it may be a good idea to open up a new code forum for Python as a trial. If it does well then open up another one for Ruby and perhaps other languages as well. All code forums would probably need to go in a folder though, the list of forums is growing rather large:)

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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:18 am 
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I have less experience with operating forums than many of you in this discussion, but as just one person's opinion, I very much see arborint's point about focus. To get silly, how about a COBOL forum? Hey, talk about stable! Seriously, I would be a little concerned that the New Posts index could become completely unmanageable for many and drive the average user into a corner, just viewing the one or two forums that interest them, just to due to volume. I rather like the idea of reading the New Posts and getting exposed to interesting threads in forums I'd never bother to actually read. At some point, expansion would surely make that unwieldy. I don't know how to judge the point at which "one more is too many."

Going completely off-topic, that reminds me of the question, "Why are martinis like a woman's breasts?" Anybody remember the answer?


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:00 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:25 pm 
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Yeah. I wouldn't mind talking about Erlang either.


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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:50 am 
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 Post subject: Re: PHPDN more than PHP?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:24 am 
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Pádraic, I certainly hear what you and Ollie are saying. But the reality is that there have always been and will always be a small group of programmers who place a high value on broadened horizons, learning many languages, programming paradigms/approaches and the beauty and expressiveness of code in general. And you will always be quite incredulous that everyone does not see the bright and shiny future that seems so obvious to you. But the majority of us programmers are quite inferior to you guys. We are just trying to get our programs to work and become more productive in the couple of languages we've sort of figured out. Trailing edge technologies like PHP are quite enough to meet our needs and language aesthetics are simply not on our minds. On a positive note, in a few years we will probably appreciate what you were trying to tell us here...

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