I'm going to echo Onion2k's comments because I think they bear repeating:
Onion2k wrote:I realise you're new to CF and so you think all the new toys are wonderful, but PHPDN really isn't the place to evangelise about it. Take it to a CF forum.
In none of your responses have you really done anything beyond saying "Yes, but CF is great because..". Thats not what these forums are for.
However, in the interest of discussion, there are a few points you brought up that I think bear commenting on.
waradmin wrote:What really cought my attention with coldfusion is its intigration with my favorite coding/design environment Macromedia Dreamweaver.
You can get extremely solid integration as well using Zend's offerings. With a webserver (with php) and database running on your desktop, Zend is every bit as integrated. Give it a try and I suspect you'll see similar synergies.
I'm not endorsing Zend, because personally I find most of the integration features to be a negative point, not a positive point. To each their own, but if thats what you like, Zend will probably suit you well in a transition to PHP.
waradmin wrote:Database management, login creation and more is so simple because ColdFusion and Dreamweaver are both macromedia products.
Its important to note that it is
not because they are both products by the same company. It is because Coldfusion has built-in functions for the majority of those items. PHP in contrast left those items up to individuals to implement, primarily to ensure more flexibility. By way of example, you'd have a very hard time integrating a phpbb forum login into your CF scripts, while it is fairly straightforward in php or even perl. The flexibility, as you mention, does mean a reduction in simplicity.
Integration doesn't have any impact on it, however.
waradmin wrote:Another thing i liked about ColdFusion is its NT-Login abilities. With PHP (from what I am aware) you need to have LDAP to connect to a Windows NT (2000/2k3) server if you want to do Active Directory based user accounts. With ColdFusion it only takes a few lines to authenticate users against a Active Directory system.
Thats completely inaccurate. On a windows server, in a AD environment, you can simply deny unauthenticated logins, and then:
Code: Select all
$loginstuff = explode("\",$_SERVER['AUTH_USER']);
//echo "Domain: " . $loginstuff[0];
//echo "Username: " . $loginstuff[1];
Its that simple, thanks to IIS. Now, I'm leaving out the larger discussion about the dangers of trusting the user that IIS states is authenticated, and the dangers of trusting the variable. Those issues are present in CF as well, so the response is completely appropriate.
With PHP, it only takes a few lines to authenticate users against an AD system as well.
waradmin wrote:The report/chart generation abilities coldfusion have are impressive and simplistic.
They are also inaccessible (flash with poor accessibility support - not the fault of flash itself!), and limited to a smaller subset than the awesome JPGraph.
waradmin wrote:Also the ability to with a few clicks make a PDF file out of database output results with graphs and a nice layout is simple, and great for business presentations if your presenting time spent on a project by user 1 user 2 and user 3 etc.
You can do the same with many of the pdf libraries in PHP.
waradmin wrote:People who code dont have time to learn complex functions and install plugins/edit config files to get a graph system working. Where i work, there isnt time to screw around, if something needs to get done, get it done quick, get it done right, and make it look good.
On the contrary, most enterprise development isn't about the quick one-off fix - its about maintainable code. PHP hits the sweet spot between quick development (its a scripting language, not compiled), and maintainable code. Thats why companies like Yahoo have embraced it extensively - it gives fast bang for the buck, but it also quickly ramps up to enterprise scale architectures with decent design. The same is not generally true for CF.
waradmin wrote:Companies want to pay people as little as possible to get as much as possible, and coldfusion can meet MOST companies needs quickly and make it look very nice. Business execs love flash forms, graphs, and grids, because it is attractive.
I disagree. Most executives in Enterprise development love accessibility, because it prevents lawsuits. I know its a smarmy answer, but its very true. In many industries in the US, developing code that the public will use has a direct financial impact if it is not accessible. The vast majority of CF 'features' you are referring to are also highly inaccessible.
But as I said above, PHP has libraries that give the same ease of use, and with more flexibility, more accessibility, and best of all - more maintainable structure.
You are leaving out a massive reason why CF isn't even in the same league with PHP: PHP runs on more platforms, and has a much larger installed base. Finding a PHP host is a cakewalk - the vast majority of webhosts offer it. You cannot say the same for CF. Worse, the integration features you love are also the reason why running CF means running Dreamweaver if you want to get the most power out of it. If you love Vi, or Emacs, you miss out.
I'm certainly not going to stoop to a flamefest on CF, but there are reasons for both PHP and CF to still exist. However, as Onion2k said, if all you want to do is tout the benefits of CF, this is the wrong place to do it.
We're happy to advise you on alternatives in PHP for the things you like in CF, but if your response to each is going to be "Yeah, but CF is great because..", the conversation should be held elsewhere.